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Theology Adrift: The Early Church Fathers and Their Views of Eschatology
Bible.Org ^ | March 10, 2012 | Matthew Allen

Posted on 09/12/2013 4:22:27 AM PDT by imardmd1

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To: RobbyS

>> “Even in Jerusalem, there were Jews who spoke only Greek” <<

.
That is absolute garbage!

And none of Alexander’s conquests had any effect on national languages.

Alexander, a Danite Hebrew himself ethnically, even conmmented on his being mentioned in prophecy when in Jerusalem. Alexander was very much a ‘friendly’ conqueror in Jerusalem.


101 posted on 09/15/2013 6:05:29 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: CynicalBear
I’m still waiting for you to prove that the apostles taught the assumption and veneration of Mary and I asked the question first.

No, you are asking me to prove from Scripture that he taught those things. Since I believe in a living church established by Jesus Christ and protected by the Holy Spirit from error I see no need to prove that from Scripture. I do not believe in sola scripture.

You do believe in sola scriptura so you should be able to show from Scripture itself that this was the teaching of the apostles. That neither you, or anyone else, can give a scriptural bases for this belief clearly shows that it is indeed anti-scriptual.

102 posted on 09/15/2013 6:20:28 PM PDT by Petrosius
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To: editor-surveyor
All of the NT was ORIGINALLY written in Hebrew, or the the mistranslations of Hebrew would not be present in them.

Or it could mean that Paul was writing in Greek as a second language. Using grammatical patterns from one's native language is quite common for speakers of a second non-native language. It is absurd to think that Paul wrote his epistles in Hebrew when those addressed would not understand it. Greek was the common language of the entire eastern Mediterranean. This was the language that Paul used.

103 posted on 09/15/2013 6:25:33 PM PDT by Petrosius
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To: editor-surveyor
And none of Alexander’s conquests had any effect on national languages.

But it did introduce Greek as the common language of the entire eastern Mediterranean. Why do you think the Jewish scholars in Alexandria, Egypt produced the Septuagint translation of the Old Testament? Notice also that the titulus on the Cross was in Hebrew, Latin and Greek.

104 posted on 09/15/2013 6:28:29 PM PDT by Petrosius
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To: imardmd1; infool7; Heart-Rest; HoosierDammit; red irish; fastrock; NorthernCrunchyCon; ...

imardmd1 wrote: “This article pinpoints the event on the historical time line in which the “sacral society” concept quashed the Apostolic New Testament doctrinal view of eschatology for almost two thousand years, due to the many documented errors of the fallible early “church father” theologians. That effect has been partially offset by the effective reintroduction of premillennium doctrine since the mid-1800s and its incorporation in evangelical commentaries and literature.”

So “for almost two thousand years,...” God has denied us His Word and His Church? That sounds like the odd Mormon view of the Bible.


105 posted on 09/15/2013 6:28:30 PM PDT by narses
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To: editor-surveyor
Alexander, a Danite Hebrew…

No, Alexander was a Macedonian.

106 posted on 09/15/2013 6:29:29 PM PDT by Petrosius
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To: Petrosius

>> “Or it could mean that Paul was writing in Greek as a second language” <<

.
No, it couldn’t possibly mean that, because Paul understood every element of Hebrew language, and culture. He was Gamaliel’s best student!

It means that the translators worked long enough after the almost absolute diaspora that little knowledge about the language and customs was available.


107 posted on 09/15/2013 6:31:43 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: editor-surveyor
No, it couldn’t possibly mean that, because Paul understood every element of Hebrew language, and culture.

But not necessarily every aspect of the Greek language which would have been a second language for him. Have you not spoken with those who use English as a second language? Do you know any other languages? If so, would you consider yourself completely fluent and equal to a native speaker?

108 posted on 09/15/2013 6:35:05 PM PDT by Petrosius
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To: imardmd1

I am an unabashed premillennial.

I do not think being part of a hierarchical church means that premillennialism is not present. It just means that it’s in the minority. For whatever reason, hierarchies particularly seem to gravitate toward more allegorical interpretations. Perhaps it’s because they are simply less troublesome.

My research has convinced me that premillennialism was the position of the earliest church.

I totally reject full preterism, and I’m not very fond of any partial preterism that overstates 70 AD.


109 posted on 09/15/2013 6:39:17 PM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: Petrosius
>>Since I believe in a living church established by Jesus Christ and protected by the Holy Spirit from error I see no need to prove that from Scripture.<<

But you MUST show and be able to prove that the apostles taught what you believe.

“But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.” Galatians 1:8-9

Going by hearsay without proof that the apostles taught something you believe is believing “another gospel”. If you don’t believe in Sola Scriptura than you must prove from some other source that the apostles taught what you believe.

110 posted on 09/15/2013 6:53:20 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: CynicalBear
But you MUST show and be able to prove that the apostles taught what you believe.

No, all I have to do is show that our Lord established an authoritative teaching church based on Peter and the apostles whose authority exists today with the pope and the bishops. You are well aware of the many Scripture passages that Catholics use to support this. In the end we are not disputing with each other over the authority of Scripture but its meaning.

Again, I point out that Paul states in Galatians "which we have preached" not written. We both accept the authority of this passage but differ on its meaning and that of many other passages. If you truly believed in sola scriptura then you would not insist that I accept your interpretations. Do you claim for yourself an infallibility of interpretation that you reject for the Church as a whole?

The fact that you are unwilling (ahem, unable) to show from Scripture itself that the apostles taught sola scriptura shouts loudly of the inner contradiction of this theory. This, and not the teaching of the Catholic Church, is the other gospel than "that that ye have received."

111 posted on 09/15/2013 7:51:20 PM PDT by Petrosius
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To: editor-surveyor

The Greeks ruled Jerusalem down to time of the Maccabees. Koine was the lingua franca for all of Syria.


112 posted on 09/15/2013 8:01:10 PM PDT by RobbyS (quotes)
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To: RobbyS

Jerusalem is not in syria, and syria had been heavily helenized before Alexander.


113 posted on 09/15/2013 8:13:11 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: Petrosius

Paul apparently communicated fairly well in Greek when he was in Athens; he caused massive rebellion. But there is no credible EVIDENCE that he wrote anything in Greek. (evidence as opposed to abundant opinion from the unbelievers that rule acadenia)


114 posted on 09/15/2013 8:19:37 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: Petrosius

Macedonia was well populated with Danites.

A study of Greek names shows massive Danite influence. Many of the current names of Greek characters came from Hebrew too.


115 posted on 09/15/2013 8:23:56 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: editor-surveyor
Paul apparently communicated fairly well in Greek when he was in Athens; he caused massive rebellion. But there is no credible EVIDENCE that he wrote anything in Greek.

Except his epistles.

So Paul could clearly speak Greek but for some reason he refused to write in Greek even when he was writing to Greek speakers?

116 posted on 09/15/2013 8:26:18 PM PDT by Petrosius
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To: Petrosius

Pauls epistles wer written in Hebrew and later translated to other languages.

Pauls epistles are a showcase of mistranslation.


117 posted on 09/15/2013 8:29:29 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: editor-surveyor
Macedonia was well populated with Danites.

Really?!? Where do you come up with this nonsense?

118 posted on 09/15/2013 8:29:49 PM PDT by Petrosius
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To: editor-surveyor
Pauls epistles are a showcase of mistranslation.

Or of a broken Greek from a non-native speaker.

119 posted on 09/15/2013 8:30:50 PM PDT by Petrosius
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To: editor-surveyor

The Hasmoneans came to power in reaction to Antiochus’ decision to hellenize Judea, including Jerusalem.


120 posted on 09/15/2013 8:31:00 PM PDT by RobbyS (quotes)
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