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To: daniel1212; Alamo-Girl

Ooops meant to ping daniel1212 and Alamo-Girl to 372.


373 posted on 09/04/2013 2:59:22 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: CynicalBear; Heart-Rest; daniel1212
Whoa, I think I need to do a little back-pedaling here.

When I raised the passage about Aaron and the golden calf, the point was that he was trying to mix worshiping God with worshiping idols and that obviously made God very angry. It was nearly a fatal mistake.

But mixing worshiping God with worshiping idols is a different situation than a Christian continuing a custom which has no element of idol worshiping.

Every Easter for instance, I make tons of cascarones (confetti filled eggs) for the kids to find and smash over each other’s heads. It’s a South Texas tradition and the kids have a wonderful time. And, of course, we have a piñata to go with it. And I sometimes stuff the piñata with candies that contain Bible verses.

The fact that the holiday itself has a pagan origin and the name is a pagan “godess” has no place whatsoever in my heart or the hearts of the kids that enjoy the traditional celebration.

But if it did prick my conscience, then I would have nothing whatsoever to do with it. Nor would I invite anyone to such a celebration whose conscience would be pricked by our doing it. That is the heart of this passage from Romans 14:

Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, [but] not to doubtful disputations. For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth [it] unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [it]. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

For it is written, [As] I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in [his] brother's way. – Romans 14:1-13

Likewise, I keep a nativity up all year round. I don’t burn candles in front of it or sacrifice small animals to it, pray to or at it, feast to it, dance around it, etc. It’s there simply because it pleases me. Just like a beautiful painting I have of the Mission La Bahia.

As a counter example and since you raised “altars” as an issue earlier, dear Heart-Rest, it troubles me that so many Christian religions have altars that they use in their service, especially of the bread and wine. I do not know if it troubles anyone else. Nor do I question the sincerity of the ministers or priests or congregations who attend such services.

But in my spirit, there is only one altar on earth where blood sacrifice can be presented:

But unto the place which the LORD your God shall choose out of all your tribes to put his name there, [even] unto his habitation shall ye seek, and thither thou shalt come: And thither ye shall bring your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, and your tithes, and heave offerings of your hand, and your vows, and your freewill offerings, and the firstlings of your herds and of your flocks: And there ye shall eat before the LORD your God, and ye shall rejoice in all that ye put your hand unto, ye and your households, wherein the LORD thy God hath blessed thee. - Deut 12:5-7

Then there shall be a place which the LORD your God shall choose to cause his name to dwell there; thither shall ye bring all that I command you; your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, your tithes, and the heave offering of your hand, and all your choice vows which ye vow unto the LORD: - Deut 12:11

And that place is in the Jewish temple at Jerusalem:

And it came to pass, when Solomon had finished the building of the house of the LORD, and the king's house, and all Solomon's desire which he was pleased to do, That the LORD appeared to Solomon the second time, as he had appeared unto him at Gibeon. And the LORD said unto him, I have heard thy prayer and thy supplication, that thou hast made before me: I have hallowed this house, which thou hast built, to put my name there for ever; and mine eyes and mine heart shall be there perpetually. - I Kings 9:1-3

As prophesied, all the other altars were torn down. For instance,

And, behold, there came a man of God out of Judah by the word of the LORD unto Bethel: and Jeroboam stood by the altar to burn incense. And he cried against the altar in the word of the LORD, and said, O altar, altar, thus saith the LORD; Behold, a child shall be born unto the house of David, Josiah by name; and upon thee shall he offer the priests of the high places that burn incense upon thee, and men's bones shall be burnt upon thee. – I Kings 13:1-3

And the altars that [were] on the top of the upper chamber of Ahaz, which the kings of Judah had made, and the altars which Manasseh had made in the two courts of the house of the LORD, did the king beat down, and brake [them] down from thence, and cast the dust of them into the brook Kidron. – II Kings 23:12

And the Jerusalem altar as well as the temple are "types" of the real Altar and Temple in Heaven. (Hebrews, Revelation)

And of course, God allowed those earthy types to be destroyed almost two thousand years ago, not to be re-established until the end of Gentile's era by my understanding of the prophecy. (Romans, Daniel, Revelation)

And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. - Luke 21:24

Our altar is spiritual and our sacrifice comes from the heart:

Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For [it is] a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.

We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.

For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.

By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of [our] lips giving thanks to his name. But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such sacrifices God is well pleased. – Hebrews 13:9-16

I cannot say that the Christian tradition of altars is an offensive to God, but I can say it is an offensive to me.

On the other hand, I’m not going to give another Christian a hard time because it comforts him to have an altar in his church. (Romans 14)

Give God the glory, not man, never man.

387 posted on 09/04/2013 8:08:03 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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