Posted on 07/22/2013 2:45:09 PM PDT by NYer
Two days ago, we had a couple of converts to the Catholic Faith come by the office here at Catholic Answers to get a tour of our facility and to meet the apologists who had been instrumental in their conversions. One of the two gave me a letter she received from her Pentecostal pastor. He had written to her upon his discovery that she was on her way into full communion with the Catholic Church. She asked for advice concerning either how to respond or whether she should respond at all to the letter.
As I read through the multiple points her former pastor made, one brought back particular memories for me, because it was one of my favorites to use in evangelizing Catholics back in my Protestant days. The Catholic Church, he warned, teaches “doctrines of demons” according to the plain words of I Timothy 4:1-3:
Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by giving heed to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, through the pretensions of liars whose consciences are seared, who forbid marriage and enjoin abstinence from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.
What is consecrated celibacy if not “forbid[ding] marriage?” And what is mandatory abstinence from meat during the Fridays of Lent if not “enjoin[ing] abstinence from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving?” So says this Pentecostal pastor. How do we respond?
Innocent on Both Charges
Despite appearances, there are at least two central reasons these claims fail when held up to deeper scrutiny:
1. St. Paul was obviously not condemning consecrated celibacy in I Timothy 4, because in the very next chapter of this same letter, he instructed Timothy pastorally concerning the proper implementation of consecrated celibacy with regard to “enrolled” widows:
Let a widow be enrolled if she is not less than sixty years of age, having been the wife of one husband . . . well attested for her good deeds. . . . But refuse to enroll younger widows; for when they grow wanton against Christ they desire to marry, and so they incur condemnation for having violated their first pledge (I Tim. 5:9-11).
There is nothing ordinarily wrong with a widow remarrying. St. Paul himself made clear in Romans 7:2-3:
[A] married woman is bound by law to her husband as long as he lives. . . . But if her husband dies she is free from that law, and if she remarries another man she is not an adulterous.
Yet, the “widow” of I Timothy 5 is condemned if she remarries? In the words of Ricky Ricardo, St. Paul has some “splainin’ to do.”
The answer lies in the fact that the widow in question had been “enrolled,” which was a first-century equivalent to being “consecrated.” Thus, according to St. Paul, these “enrolled” widows were not only celibate but consecrated as such.
2. St. Paul was obviously not condemning the Church making abstinence from certain foods mandatory, because the Council of Jerusalem, of which St. Paul was a key participant in A.D. 49, did just that in declaring concerning Gentile converts:
For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from unchastity (Acts 15:28).
This sounds just like "enjoin[ing] abstinence from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving." So there is obviously something more to I Timothy 4 than what one gets at first glance.
What Was St. Paul Actually Calling “Doctrines of Demons?”
In A Catholic Commentary on Sacred Scripture, the 1953 classic for Scripture study, Fr. R.J. Foster gives us crucial insight into what St. Paul was writing about in I Timothy 4:
[B]ehind these prohibitions there may lie the dualistic principles which were already apparent in Asia Minor when this epistle was written and which were part of the Gnostic heresy.
Evidently, St. Paul was writing against what might be termed the founding fathers of the Gnostic movement that split away from the Church in the first century and would last over 1,000 years, forming many different sects and taking many different forms.
Generally speaking, Gnostics taught that spirit was good and matter was pure evil. We know some of them even taught there were two gods, or two “eternal principles,” that are the sources of all that is. There was a good principle, or god, who created all spirit, while an evil principle created the material world.
Moreover, we humans had a pre-human existence, according to the Gnostics, and were in perfect bliss as pure spirits dwelling in light and in the fullness of the “gnosis” or “knowledge.” Perfect bliss, that is, until our parents did something evil: They got married. Through the conjugal act perfectly pure spirits are snatched out of that perfect bliss and trapped in evil bodies, causing the darkening of the intellect and the loss of the fullness of the "gnosis." Thus, salvation would only come through the gaining, or regaining, of the “gnosis” that the Gnostics alone possessed.
Eating meat was also forbidden because its consumption would bring more evil matter into the body, having the effect of both keeping a person bound to his evil body and further darkening the intellect.
Thus, these early Gnostics forbade “marriage and enjoin[ed] abstinence from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving.”
If there are any remaining doubts as to whom St. Paul was referring as teaching "doctrines of demons," he tips his hand in his final exhortation in I Timothy 6:20-21:
O Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you. Avoid the godless chatter and contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge, for by professing it some have missed the mark as regards faith. Grace be with you.
The Greek word translated above as “knowledge” is gnoseos. Sound familiar? The bottom line is this: St. Paul was not condemning the Catholic Church in I Timothy 4; he was warning against early Gnostics who were leading Christians astray via their “gnosis,” which was no true gnosis at all.
Was Jesus possessed by the Devil??? Did Jesus need an exorcist???
Does the RCC teach the doctrines of demons? Well, you be the judge:
From the Secret of the Rosary, endorsed by Pope Benedict:
“One day the King fell seriously ill and when he was given up for dead he found himself, in a vision, before the judgement seat of Our Lord. Many devils were there accusing him of all the sins he had committed and Our Lord as Sovereign Judge was just about to condemn him to hell when Our Lady appeared to intercede for him. She called for a pair of scales and had his sins placed in one of the balances whereas she put the rosary that he had always worn on the other scale, together with all the Rosaries that had been said because of his example. It was found that the Rosaries weighed more than his sins.
Looking at him with great kindness Our Lady said: “As a reward for this little honor that you paid me in wearing my Rosary, I have obtained a great grace for you from my Son. Your life will be spared for a few more years. See that you spend these years wisely, and do penance.”
When the King regained consciousness he cried out: “Blessed be the Rosary of the Most Holy Virgin Mary, by which I have been delivered from eternal damnation!”
After he had recovered his health he spent the rest of his life in spreading devotion to the Holy Rosary and said it faithfully every day.
People who love the Blessed Virgin out to follow the example of King Alphonsus and that of the saints whom I have mentioned so that they too may win other souls for the Confraternity of the Holy Rosary. They will then receive great graces on earth and eternal life later on. “They that explain me shall have life everlasting life.” [1] Ecclus. 24:31”
Another story on how saying rosaries can earn you salvation:
“Later on, when she was at prayer she fell into ecstasy and had a vision of her soul appearing before the Supreme Judge. Saint Michael put all her penances and to her prayers on one side of the scale and all her sins and imperfections on the other. The tray of her good works were greatly outweighed by that of her sins and imperfections.
Filled with alarm, she cried out for mercy, imploring the help of the Blessed Virgin, her gracious advocate, who took the one and only Rosary she had said for her penance and dropped it on the tray of her good works. This one Rosary was so heavy that it weighed more than all her sins as well as her good works. Our Lady then reproved her for having refused to follow the counsel of her servant Dominic and for not saying the Rosary every day.
As soon as she came to herself she rushed and threw herself at the feet of Saint Dominic and told him all that had happened, begged his forgiveness and promised to say the Rosary faithfully every day. By this means she rose to Christian perfection and finally to the glory of everlasting life.”
http://www.rosary-center.org/secret.htm
Popes on the “sure and most efficacious means” for help from heaven:
“We constantly seek for help from Heaven - the sole means of effecting anything - that our labours and our care may obtain their wished for object. We deem that there could be no surer and more efficacious means to this end than by religion and piety to obtain the favour of the great Virgin Mary, the Mother of God, the guardian of our peace and the minister to us of heavenly grace, who is placed on the highest summit of power and glory in Heaven, in order that she may bestow the help of her patronage on men who through so many labours and dangers are striving to reach that eternal city. Now that the anniversary, therefore, of manifold and exceedingly great favours obtained by a Christian people through the devotion of the Rosary is at hand, We desire that that same devotion should be offered by the whole Catholic world with the greatest earnestness to the Blessed Virgin, that by her intercession her Divine Son may be appeased and softened in the evils which afflict us. And therefore We determined, Venerable Brethren, to despatch to you these letters in order that, informed of Our designs, your authority and zeal might excite the piety of your people to conform themselves to them.” (ENCYCLICAL OF POPE LEO XIII ON DEVOTION OF THE ROSARY)
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_01091883_supremi-apostolatus-officio_en.html
A decree to perform them:
“We decree and order that in the whole Catholic world, during this year, the devotion of the Rosary shall be solemnly celebrated by special and splendid services. From the first day of next October, therefore, until the second day of the November following, in every parish and, if the ecclesiastical authority deem it opportune and of use, in every chapel dedicated to the Blessed Virgin - let five decades of the Rosary be recited with the addition of the Litany of Loreto.” (SUPREMI APOSTOLATUS OFFICIO, ENCYCLICAL OF POPE LEO XIII ON DEVOTION OF THE ROSARY)
The importance of the Rosary to a Pope:
“With these words, dear brothers and sisters, I set the first year of my Pontificate within the daily rhythm of the Rosary. Today, as I begin the twenty-fifth year of my service as the Successor of Peter, I wish to do the same. How many graces have I received in these years from the Blessed Virgin through the Rosary: Magnificat anima mea Dominum! I wish to lift up my thanks to the Lord in the words of his Most Holy Mother, under whose protection I have placed my Petrine ministry: Totus Tuus!” (ROSARIUM VIRGINIS MARIAE OF THE SUPREME PONTIFF JOHN PAUL II)
I don’t know about you, but a religion that depicts our mediator between God and man as a foolish Judge inclined to believe the accusations of Demons, only to be thwarted by the mediation of Mary who pleads... not the blood of Christ, but the prayers of Rosaries... sounds pretty Demonic to me.
>> “Who then, is the ignorant one here.” <<
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You and the rest of your cathjolic friends.
Remembrance is not converting bread into flesh!
Its not a prohibition against a certain food. Catholics are fully entitled to eat meat -- yes, even on Fridays if they so desire.
"Catholic priests are not allowed to get married...Again, who do you think you're fooling???"
Eastern Rite and Ukrainian Rite priests (both fully valid Catholic Rites) are permitted to marry.
"Jesus was speaking spiritually, not physically..."
But the earth was created in 6 days? Protestants: the bible is completely literal, except when it isn't.
To those of us who inhabit reality, doing is doing.
"Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean” (vs. 14).
“What God has cleansed, that call not you common” (vs. 15).
Tell me again how long you've been reading the bible. It is my opinion that protestants have a tendency to read, but not to comprehend.
Doing WRT Yeshua’s words is not the witchcraft of the catholic church, pretending that they conjur up the flesh of Yeshua.
Doing is breaking the levened bread, as Yeshua did on the evening of a preparation day, prior to the passover, and doing so in remembrance of him.
Goog luck on finding any reality in your vicinity.
I don't know if you guys own bibles and just don't bother to read them or you just read the Catholic propaganda and think your smart teachers have something over on bible believers...
This is really the reason the followers left:
Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
Joh 6:42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?
Joh 6:62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
Joh 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
Joh 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
Joh 6:66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
It was the entire combination of things that led the disciples to leave...But mostly it was because they knew Jesus from a child...And now this little kid grows up and says he is God and will ascend to heaven...
Jesus knew they didn't believe...He knew they weren't going to believe...It wasn't a matter of Jesus trying to explain a single event...They didn't believe any of it...They were there for the food...
THIS IS MY BODY, THIS IS MY BLOOD. HE doesn't say "this is regular bread/wine." HE says that it is HIS body and blood.
“THIS IS MY BODY, THIS IS MY BLOOD. HE doesn’t say “this is regular bread/wine.” HE says that it is HIS body and blood.”
A perfectly appropriate way to speak for a Jew, as they also said “this is the Passover of the Lord,” even though they were only speaking of the celebration of the Passover.
Unless you imagine that Christ was there drinking and eating his own blood and flesh, and will continue to do so in heaven with the Apostles.
Mat 26:27-29 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; (28) For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. (29) But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.
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Perhaps you missed Peter's interpretation of Yehova’s words in verse 15?
Acts
[25] And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshiped him.
[26] But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.
[27] And as he talked with him, he went in, and found many that were come together.
[28] And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.
It was not an enticement to eat rodents or drink blood.
Roman Catholic priests are not allowed to marry...We all know that...
Its not a prohibition against a certain food. Catholics are fully entitled to eat meat -- yes, even on Fridays if they so desire.
Guess someone forgot to tell the Catholic kids I grew up with...
But the earth was created in 6 days? Protestants: the bible is completely literal, except when it isn't.
You got it...Not just Protestants tho, is it??? You as a Catholic are taught not to take a large amount of the scripture literally, so why the comment???
The bible condemns your religion...No way your religion can get out of it...
That was his real body, eh??? Did Jesus scream when they ripped his body apart before they ate it???
In Matthew’s account, it says that he took levened bread, not a lump of flesh; the sayings are spiritual in nature, not catholic witchcraft.
New International Version (©2011) - And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.
New Living Translation (©2007)- "When you pray, don't babble on and on as people of other religions do. They think their prayers are answered merely by repeating their words again and again.
English Standard Version (©2001)- “And when you pray, do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard for their many words.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)- "And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)- But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)- When you pray, don't babble like the idolaters, since they imagine they'll be heard for their many words.
International Standard Version (©2012)- "When you are praying, don't say meaningless things like the unbelievers do, because they think they will be heard by being so wordy.
>> “But the earth was created in 6 days?” <<
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Yes, it was. Too bad for catholics that would rather simply disbelieve. The only parts of Yehova’s word that are alegory are those that tell us so in advance in the preceeding sentence.
And who says Catholics are not supposed to take the bible literally? Except for things that are clearly allegorical (eg much of revelations) or in parable form, I consider the bible to be literal.
I'd say the bible condemns Protestantism.
But but but... if we say it more it is more true...
Because Jesus as God is not metaphysical and is incapable of performing acts outside of the physical reality we are confined to. Is that what you're driving at?
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