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To: mitch5501
Paul taught otherwise as is clear in Corinthians.

I Corinthians 9:27 But I chastise my body, and bring it into subjection : lest perhaps, when I have preached to others, I myself should become a castaway.

I also don't see how "abide in goodness" here

Romans 11:21 For if God hath not spared the natural branches, fear lest perhaps he also spare not thee.
Romans 11:22 See then the goodness and the severity of God: towards them indeed that are fallen, the severity; but towards thee, the goodness of God,if thou abide in goodness, otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

can possibly be construed as meaning only to keep believing as opposed to meaning that we must persist in reflecting Christ in our lives by our actions.

I understand the contrary point of view, I just don't see how it holds water in light of what Christ and the Apostles taught. Especially the fact that Paul, of all people, was concerned with doing rather than only with believing lest he become a castaway.

121 posted on 07/19/2013 4:36:15 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: Rashputin

I think the way to view the matter, that reconciles both points is this:

The work necessary for the salvation of any man is completely and irrevocably done, accomplished by Christ on the cross. By that standard, in general, the salvation of all IS done.

As for individual believers, well, some verses suggest that our salvation can never be lost, and yet the apostles even seemed to continually struggle with maintaining their conduct so as not to be lost. So either the apostles didn’t have a clear certainty of their own salvation, or they pretended not to for sake of illustrating a point, or they really believed that one could lose their salvation.

I think the answer to this dillemna is pointed at in 2 John 2:18-19 -

“18Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.”

This suggests, to me, that salvation is assured for those that truly believe, and that those who eventually seem to “lose” their salvation were never truly faithful to begin with. One could view that from the Calvinist stance, that those “true believers” were elected by God in advance, or a non-Calvinist view, that we really make the choice ourselves. Either way, it seems that the best course of action is to assume our faith is strong enough for us to overcome, for if it turns out not to be, we’ve lost nothing in the effort, but if it turns out to be, we have gained a reward without measure.


126 posted on 07/19/2013 5:06:14 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: Rashputin; 2nd amendment mama
"can possibly be construed as meaning only to keep believing as opposed to meaning that we must persist in reflecting Christ in our lives by our actions"

Yet Jesus Himself said..."Be not afraid, only believe." (Mark 5:36)

I suppose it hinges on what we think 'believe' actually means.

What we say we believe or even what we think we believe is not necessarily what we actually do believe deep down in our heart.For it's with the heart (not the head) that we believe unto righteousness.(Romans 10:10)

It's the state of our heart that will determine how we act and out of it's abundance the mouth speaks.(Luke 6:45)

Therefore doing the "work of God" (John 6:29) will enable us to "enter His rest" in order to cease from our own works. (Hebrews 4:10)

and not only that....but doing the "work of God" will ensure that we "never fall" (2 Peter 1:10)

So yes,only believing will cause you to cease from your own works and will ensure that you never fall.It's important to say the least.

So much of religion is about "do",the truth is "done" and the ball is in our court to get that to sink in ie:believe.

131 posted on 07/19/2013 5:53:52 PM PDT by mitch5501 ("make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things ye shall never fall")
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