Replies

Which Bible? Can you tell me, infallibly?

What about you? Can YOU tell us infallibly?

Of course not. Christ's Church alone can.

_________________________________________________

Let me try to speed this up a bit, rather than repeating the same points endlessly.

The next logical question is, How do we know that the Catholic Church is infallible?

The Bible tells us so. The Bible calls the Catholic Church, "the pillar and foundation of truth."

But, up to this point, I have created a circular argument.

There is a way out. I can begin my argument by simply considering the Bible as a historical document.

Even non-Christians can agree that the Bible is the best attested-to historical document of its era. If we begin by treating the New Testament as a historical document, we notice that Christ claimed divinity, claimed to establish a Church, and that He made several predictions, including the prediction that the "gates of hell" would not prevail against His Church.

Simply by examining history, we see in the Catholic Church an unparalleled earthly institution, in terms of organization and continuity of leadership. Moreover, the Church possesses an unparalleled, non-contradictory body of teaching, in keeping with It being "the pillar and foundation of truth."

Additionally, countless public miracles are associated with this same Church, including extant, persistent, public miracles, that can be subjected to scientific examination (Tilma of Juan Diego, Shroud of Turin, Eucharistic Mircacle of Lanciano).

These facts, and this simple argument, demonstrate, with extreme probability, that the Catholic Church is of divine origin.

This confirms Christ's prophecy, and thus, His divinity as well, again with extreme probability.

Since we now know, again, with high probability, that Christ is Who He claimed to be, and that the Catholic Church is His Church, we can be sure that the Catholic Church has the authority to determine the canon of Scripture.

Proving Inspiration

And your alternative authority is... who? King James? Martin Luther?

I think Balaam could make just as good a claim of infallibility for his donkey as you just did!

The World's ONLY Infallible Donkey© for Sale. Has spoken when moved by G-d. Has seen angelic visitations. Slightly abused by current owner, but was a misunderstanding. Do not be tricked by other claims of infallibility! Don't be an as*! Buy my as* instead! $1.5 million firm. I am also open to offers of stud service so that your future donkeys can lay claim to being infallible. There are so many donkey's making so many claims these days, but I tell you they are all false!!! Breed your donkey to the Infallible Donkey and you will also be able to claim infallibility for your donkey through generations! The fee is steep. The value is unending. Contact me at: Balaam@My.Donkey-Is-the-Only-Infallible-Donkey.com

I have received questions about my infallible donkey. I will answer.
Q: How do I know he is infallible?
A: First, I will consider the Bible as a historical document. Even non-Jews or non-Christians can agree that the Bible is the best attested-to historical document of its era. If we begin by treating the New Testament as a historical document, we notice that God claimed divinity, claimed to establish a nation, and that He made several predictions, including the prediction that the descendants of our Fathers would be as numerous as the sand.
Simply by examining history, we see in the nation an unparalleled earthly institution, in terms of organization and continuity of leadership. Moreover, the nation possesses an unparalleled, non-contradictory body of teaching, in keeping with It being God's People.
Additionally, countless public miracles are associated with this same nation - do I need to remind you of the whole Escape from Egypt Miracle that starred Mr. Heston, including extant, persistent, public miracles, that can be subjected to scientific examination (Creation, Prophets, Law, Captivity, Exile, Red Sea - too many to number, unlike those who point to supposed burial shrouds). These facts, and this simple argument, demonstrate, with extreme probability, that the Jewish Nation is of divine origin. This confirms God's prophecy, and thus, His divinity as well, again with extreme probability.
Since we now know, again, with high probability, that God is Who He claimed to be, and that the Jews are His People, we can be sure that Israel has the authority to determine the canon of Scripture.
And your alternative authority is... who? Religious Leaders dressed in silk and funny hats?

Which Bible? Can you tell me, infallibly?

No magisterium of men possessed assured infallibility whereby they established writings as Scripture, nor was one needed, but these were essentially established as Scripture due to their enduring Divine qualities and attestation. Otherwise the church could not have established its truth clams upon Scriptural substantiation. Likewise, men of God were manifest as being so even if the religious powers that be rejected them. Otherwise there would be no church, as contrary to the Roman model, it began in dissent from those who sat in the seat of Moses.

The next logical question is, How do we know that the Catholic Church is infallible? The Bible tells us so. The Bible calls the Catholic Church, "the pillar and foundation of truth." But, up to this point, I have created a circular argument.

While you can attempt to bring souls to submit to Rome by arguing history, etc. provides warrant for this, yet the actual premise by which the Catholic has assurance is circular, as that the Bible tells us the church of Rome is infallible is an interpretation, but which she has infallibly rendered to be the only possible correct interpretation by interpreting, or rather declaring, herself to be infallible.

Simply by examining history, we see in the Catholic Church an unparalleled earthly institution, in terms of organization and continuity of leadership.

"Simply by examining history.." So having historical decent as the stewards of Divine revelation and inheritors of Divine promises requires and or assures this instrument has assured infallibility? (I never received a reply to post 1523 )

Moreover, the Church possesses an unparalleled, non-contradictory body of teaching, in keeping with It being "the pillar and foundation of truth."

The RC assurance that this is the case is because Rome autocratically defines her teachings as non-contradictory, despite problematic examples .

Additionally, countless public miracles are associated with this same Church, including extant,

Hardly, and far insufficient correspondent to her claims, and her adherents, overall manifest they have not realized the most essential miracle, that of the new birth, faring negatively when compared with evangelicals, even in this latter day apostasy of the church.

Simply by examining history,...Since we now know, again, with high probability, that Christ is Who He claimed to be, and that the Catholic Church is His Church, we can be sure that the Catholic Church has the authority to determine the canon of Scripture.

Rather, we see in history such things as hindrance of Bible literacy, papal sanctioned torture, etc. and spiritual deadness, and a radical difference btwn her and the NT church.

Meanwhile the only view of history, tradition and Scripture that has assured veracity and is authoritative is that which comes from Rome, as she has infallibly defined herself to be infallible .

Thus when faced with contrary evidence, no less than Bellarmine argues,

It was the charge of the Reformers that the Catholic doctrines were not primitive, and their pretension was to revert to antiquity. But the appeal to antiquity is both a treason and a heresy. It is a treason because it rejects the Divine voice of the Church at this hour, and a heresy because it denies that voice to be Divine... may say in strict truth that the Church has no antiquity. It rests upon its own supernatural and perpetual consciousness. Its past is present with it, for both are one to a mind which is immutable. Primitive and modern are predicates, not of truth, but of ourselves. — Most Rev. Dr. Henry Edward Cardinal Manning, Lord Archbishop of Westminster, “The Temporal Mission of the Holy Ghost: Or Reason and Revelation,” (New York: J.P. Kenedy & Sons, originally written 1865, reprinted with no date), pp. 227-228. .