Where Does the Bible Say We Should Pray to Dead Saints?

catholic-convert ^ | July 11, 2012 | Steve Ray

[Bigg Red]

God bless you for trying to argue with the haters. I gave that up a long time ago. You just can’t get through the rabid anti-Catholicism.

However, I do pray for them that the Lord will change their hearts and they will come home to the one true Church.

[CynicalBear]

>>Cynical bear needs to answer some questions if he wants answers to his. He has never answered any of my questions,<<

Never answered any of your questions?

Monday, July 15, 2013 10:22:25 PM · 710 of 1,120 = answered your questions.
Monday, July 15, 2013 9:54:09 PM · 693 of 1,120 = answered your question
Monday, July 15, 2013 8:51:16 PM · 675 of 1,120 = answered your question
Monday, July 15, 2013 8:31:15 PM · 670 of 1,120 = answered your question
Sunday, July 14, 2013 11:02:26 PM · 372 of 1,120 = answered your question
Sunday, July 14, 2013 10:00:23 PM · 317 of 1,120 = answered your question
Sunday, July 14, 2013 9:45:37 PM · 301 of 1,120 = answered your question
Sunday, July 14, 2013 9:19:38 PM · 285 of 1,120 = answered your question
Sunday, July 14, 2013 9:07:26 PM · 274 of 1,120 = answered your question
Sunday, July 14, 2013 8:59:20 PM · 264 of 1,120 = answered your question
Sunday, July 14, 2013 8:43:48 PM · 247 of 1,120 = answered your question
Sunday, July 14, 2013 8:29:40 PM · 223 of 1,120 = anweredd your question

That's just since Sunday! Need I go on or does that give some indication of the honesty of that statement? How many of your other statement have the voracity of "he has never answered any of my questions"?

[Colofornian]

The Psalms that are written as prayers are actually prophecies. Psalm 83 will soon show you that if you doubt it.

The book of Romans talks about how the Holy Spirit helps us even in our intercession.

My point? It doesn't have to be "either-or" on these things (unless you have some interpretation agenda you're trying to force thru the text)

IOW, the Psalmist could have readily been led by the Holy Spirit to pray a given phrase/sentence/graph...and it could also thereby be a prophecy.

You are the one insistent that we carefully and surgically compartmentalize the two (not me).

[Bigg Red]

Prayers sent for the little boy and for you and the rest of the family.

Cannot begin to imagine your anguish. I have three little grandsons under 5. Hugs to you.

[CynicalBear]

>>Just like yourself he has refused to disclose his true affiliations, when queried.<<

Once again with a statement that can easily be refuted! Here is the post.

Sunday, July 14, 2013 9:19:38 PM · 285 of 1,124
CynicalBear to JCBreckenridge >br> >>Ok, what’s it called? What’s the name for it?<<
ekklēsian - Definition: an assembly, congregation, church; the Church, the whole body of Christian believers.

What is it with you? Do you want us ever to consider your words of any value?

[Colofornian]

The point is that the Church is his vehicle to share the Gospel to the world. The Apostles are who God has chosen to work through.

What? The apostles only?

Have you never studied the NT concept of "the priesthood of all believers?"

Revelation 1:4,6: To the seven churches in the province of Asia...6 and has made US to be a kingdom and PRIESTS to serve his God and Father...

Peter didn't limit the "priesthood"...just the opposite:

4 As you come to him, the living Stone—rejected by humans but chosen by God and precious to him— 5 YOU you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. ...9 But you are a chosen PEOPLE, A ROYAL PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. 10 Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy. (1 Peter 2:4-5, 9-10)

Since God's people are now collectively corporately indwelled by the Holy Spirit, He works thru a LOT more people than many want to promote.

Even all the major lay movements within Catholicism have been emphasizing that over the past 75 years!

[Colofornian]

Whatever made you think that I thought they were not prayers anyway?

I have dozens of books on Christian prayer. Shall I go thru & cite page & author as to how many of them cite "prayers" of the Bible -- including prayers of Psalmists -- as "prototypical" (model) prayers for people to either recite or paraphrase as their own prayers lifted up to God?

In a world where people commonly use the Lord's Prayer as our own prayer as well, why did you seemingly assume in post #910 that a psalmist prototypical prayer would not be recited as somebody's OWN prayer?

[CynicalBear]

>>Has this unbiblical blasphemy and utter falsehood known as Unam Sanctam ever been renounced?<<

They can't renounce that. It was one of those "infallible" declarations. Seriously! Look it up.

[presently no screen name]

They bypass GOD'S WORD ..."In the beginning was the Word, and The Word was with God, and The Word was God. " JESUS IS THE WORD.

and they go straight to the teachings of 'man' which is evil'......The book has not always existed. The Church is older than the Bible. If one is not saved through the Church - than the Bible cannot save anyone.

To say 'their church'/catholicsm was from the beginning is giving to EVIL a universal name since the beginning. The 'deceitful one' had other names, also. However, his pawns want to lay claim to evil 'universally' by calling it 'catholicsm/'their church' - they own it.

THE BIBLE is GOD'S WORD and Jesus is GOD The WORD since the beginning and they refer to It as a book. That's evil's way of discounting Jesus and since evil needs a body to give it a voice - he can only use the ones he deceived for his words to be spoken. To them we have nothing to do with - for what does goodness have to do with evil?

There is NO good that comes out of the counterfeit and it's hell bent to gain some authority which the Vatican and all it's pawns gave evil to their own demise.

"How are you fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how are you cut down to the ground, which did weaken the nations! For you have said in your heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also on the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High" Isaiah 14

Satan had his pawns over time to fulfill this Scripture. They ate his LIES and DECEPTION. They are the children of the dark and lost. And it's THEIR CHOICE to be such.

[Colofornian]

Now you admit that there was no communication between the two but only between them and God which is restricted to heaven.

My post #919...was simply a reiteration of the exact same qualifiers I mentioned in my initial post to you (#777). (Please don't blame me if you happened to miss that caveat @ that post.)

Yet you posted the passage in response to my question about those in heaven haveing an active role in what goes on here one earth.

And lobbying the Lord--petitioning Him -- is carrying out an "active role in what goes on here on earth."

Active would indicate that there is communication between the two.

Not necessarily; and not assumable, either. Actively appealing to God is something I deem more "active" than simply God opening the ears of departed saints whereby He might allow them to hear a prayer or prayers plural.

If you were a ...
...say, a missionary to China during the era when it would have been basically impossible to either receive any messages from the West -- or send them to the West...
...just because I could LATER cite in your "BIO" how you petitioned the most powerful warlord in China to avenge violence on behalf of victims in the West...
...that would not be assumable that the given petition was somehow tied to any message your family may have tried to send to you while you were in that "impregnable" post in China...

[xzins]

Thank you so much, Red, and may our Lord bless your grandsons.

[presently no screen name]

What part of ‘speaking with their lips’ but ‘their heart is far from Me’ and ‘their prayers/praise are in VAIN’ don’t you get?

[CynicalBear]

>>My claim is that the Church wrote the Bible.<<

So it really wasn’t Moses, Paul, Peter, John et el after all? Wow! We been duped all this time?

[Iscool]

Vaticanus is much older and thus closer to what the Apostles actually wrote.

If that was true, the earliest fathers would have used it...

[CynicalBear]

>>Ok, so when was the Catholic church founded?<<

ROFLOL!! Not that again.

[sauropod]

.

[CynicalBear]

We do understand. They didn’t really say what they said and besides they had their fingers crossed behind their back.

[rwa265]

My mom has passed on, but from what she and my sister have told me, the AMC at the national level is very liberal.

[sauropod]

.

[CynicalBear]

>> why did you seemingly assume in post #910 that a psalmist prototypical prayer would not be recited as somebody's OWN prayer? <<

I did no such thing. If that is what you got from that it was a misunderstanding on your part. It certainly was not what I wrote nor what I meant. Seems to be a trend.