Posted on 06/16/2013 6:39:19 AM PDT by CHRISTIAN DIARIST
I belong to an evangelical Christian church. I subscribe to its tenets.
Among them, that there is but one true God. That He created man in His image. That man sinned against his Creator and is, therefore, fallen.
That God so loved the world He gave His only begotten son, our Lord Jesus Christ, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Yet, there is one doctrine of the church with which I have long struggled: That once someone is “saved,” they are always saved. That if a person but calls upon the name of the Lord, from that point forward he or she has a “Get Out of Hell Free” card.
It doesn’t matter how wicked the life a person leads. It doesn’t matter if he or she abides, unrepentantly, in the sins listed by the Apostle Paul, including fornication, idolatry, adultery, homosexuality, thievery, avarice, drunkenness, slander and swindling.
It doesn’t even matter if someone altogether abandons their Christian faith.
They still have a ticket to Heaven.
Well, that simply didn’t make sense to me. It seemed to contradict Christ’s calling upon those of us who would follow after Him: “Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.”
Indeed, I’ve asked myself, why dutifully tithe, why crucify the flesh, why feed the hungry, clothe the naked and visit the sick if it doesn’t matter in the eternal scheme of things once you’ve been saved?
Indeed, I’ve prayed often on that question. And, just recently, the Lord provided me an answer that satisfies my spirit.
It came in a recent sermon by Greg Laurie, Senior Pastor of Harvest Christian Fellowship in Riverside, California.
For those unfamiliar with Pastor Greg, in 1990 he started-up the Harvest Crusade, which will be held this August at Angels Stadium in Anaheim, and which has previously been held in such venues as MadisonSquareGarden in New York and Dodgers Stadium in Los Angeles.
Pastor Greg hosts a nationally syndicated radio program, A New Beginning. And, this past May, he led observances at the annual National Day of Prayer in Washington, D.C.
Anyway, in his message, Pastor Greg reaffirmed his belief that, “once saved, always saved.” And that it applies even to those who at one time gave their lives to the Lord, but are not now living for Him now.
“They’ve been forgiven by God,” he told the congregation. “They’re still going to heaven when they die.”
But here’s the caveat the pastor of 40 years added that does not get preached often – if at all – in most churches: “There is a final day of reckoning that is coming” not just for the unsaved, but also for the saved.
The unsaved, said Pastor Greg, will be condemned to hell, eternally separated from God.
The saved, on the other hand, will appear before the judgment seat of Christ, where each one will be rewarded – or unrewarded – according to how they used – or neglected to use – the spiritual gifts with which they were given for the glory of God.
Pastor Greg explained how the heavenly reward system will work, extrapolating from the book of Revelation, which foretells both “a new heaven and a new earth.” All those whom the Lord has saved will inherit the new earth, where, according to the writings of John of Patmos, there will be no more tears, nor death, nor sorrow, nor pain.
But the new earth will not be strictly egalitarian, Pastor Greg posits, but more of a meritocracy.
Those who were good and faithful servants in life – who, in whatever they did, did all to the glory of God – will be lifted up in the afterlife, said Pastor Greg, with position and responsibility.
Indeed, there will be among the saved that inhabit the new earth fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, homosexuals, thieves, the avaricious, drunkards, slanderers and swindlers who did little to nothing in their lives to honor and glorify God.
But they’re not going to be on the A-List. That’s reserved for those who dedicated their lives to doing God’s will. Who used the gifts with which they were endowed to glorify their Creator. Who used the blessing He bestowed upon them to bless others.
It also is reserved for those martyred in the name of the Lord. And those who accepted the Great Commission, who have gone, therefore, and made disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things the Lord has commanded.
So, then, when the Lord encouraged the saved among us to “lay up for yourselves treasure in heaven,” he was referring to good works.
For it is by grace we are saved from the fate that awaits the unsaved. But it is by good works we are rewarded for eternity.
All I know is, Heaven’s up there and I’m not worthy to enter it no matter what I do here.
But the Lord sees me trying to stay out of trouble.
Romans 10:13
Because the name of Jesus in Hebrew is Yah'shua.: Yah'shua means : YHvH is/be my Salvation ! Why is that so ?
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
“26 Dear friends, if we deliberately continue sinning after we have received knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice that will cover these sins.
I know many people who have heard “received” the knowledge of God and refused to accept it or believe it just as the scripture implies. It has nothing to do with your works after salvation.
Being ‘babtised” only improves your ability to spell correctly
Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid. -- Marcus Aurelius
The context doesn’t leave much doubt about what it is about.
“For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth - If after we are converted and become true Christians we should apostatize, it would be impossible to be recovered again, for there would be no other sacrifice for sin; no way by which we could be saved. This passage, however, like Hebrews 6:4-6, has given rise to much difference of opinion. But that the above is the correct interpretation, seems evident to me from the following considerations:
(1) It is the natural and obvious interpretation, such as would occur probably to ninety-nine readers in a hundred, if there were no theory to support, and no fear that it would conflict with some other doctrine.
(2) it accords with the scope of the Epistle, which is, to keep those whom the apostle addressed from returning again to the Jewish religion, under the trials to which they were subjected.
(3) it is in accordance with the fair meaning of the language - the words “after that we have received the knowledge of the truth,” referring more naturally to true conversion than to any other state of mind.
(4) the sentiment would not be correct if it referred to any but real Christians. It would not be true that one who had been somewhat enlightened, and who then sinned “wilfully,” must look on fearfully to the judgment without a possibility of being saved. There are multitudes of cases where such persons are saved. They “wilfully” resist the Holy Spirit; they strive against him; they for a long time refuse to yield, but they are brought again to reflection, and are led to give their hearts to God.
(5) it is true, and always will be true, that if a sincere Christian should apostatize he could never be converted again; see the notes on Hebrews 6:4-6. The reasons are obvious. He would have tried the only plan of salvation, and it would have failed. He would have embraced the Saviour, and there would not have been efficacy enough in his blood to keep him, and there would be no more powerful Saviour and no more efficacious blood of atonement. He would have renounced the Holy Spirit, and would have shown that his influences were not effectual to keep him, and there would be no other agent of greater power to renew and save him after he had apostatized. For these reasons it seems clear to me that this passage refers to true Christians, and that the doctrine here taught is, that if such an one should apostatize, he must look forward only to the terrors of the judgment, and to final condemnation.
Whether this in fact ever occurs, is quite another question. In regard to that inquiry, see the notes on Hebrews 6:4-6. If this view be correct, we may add, that the passage should not be regarded as applying to what is commonly known as the “sin against the Holy Spirit,” or “the unpardonable sin.” The word rendered “wilfully” - hekousios- occurs nowhere else in the New Testament, except in 1 Peter 5:2, where it is rendered “willingly” - “taking the oversight thereof (of the church) not by constraint, but willingly.” It properly means, “willingly, voluntarily, of our own accord,” and applies to cases where no constraint is used. It is not to be construed here strictly, or metaphysically, for all sin is voluntary, or is committed willingly, but must refer to a deliberate act, where a man means to abandon his religion, and to turn away from God. If it were to be taken with metaphysical exactness, it would demonstrate that every Christian who ever does anything wrong, no matter how small, would be lost.”
http://www.studylight.org/com/bnb/view.cgi?bk=57&ch=10
“4 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt. 7 For land that has drunk the rain that often falls on it, and produces a crop useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. 8 But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed, and its end is to be burned.
9 Though we speak in this way, yet in your case, beloved, we feel sure of better things—things that belong to salvation. 10 For God is not unjust so as to overlook your work and the love that you have shown for his name in serving the saints, as you still do. 11 And we desire each one of you to show the same earnestness to have the full assurance of hope until the end, 12 so that you may not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.” — Heb 6
Oh, but it does, Kemosabe.
"Un-Repentance" and repeated sinning violates the expressed contract with the Lord.
He knows our hearts.
The Gospels are full of teachings from Jesus about people and their works. How else to interpret the Parable of the Talents?
How else to interpret the Parable of The Vine and the Branches?
“I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[a] so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.The branch which is connected to the vine (the faithful) will nonetheless be cut off if it does not bear fruit.
Bingo. You will know them by their fruits.
your salvation can’t be taken away by anyone, but YOU can walk away from it and reject it. we still have free will. the atheist guy on this thread did exactly that.
If one was capable of "turning from sin" then Christ died for no good reason. I go by the belief that the only unpardonable sin is to blaspheme the Holy Spirit and I also believe that if one has been saved, they will be unable to do so just as Satan (and his minions) are unable to proclaim Jesus as Lord of, and Savior to, all.
Perhaps you recall Paul's lament about how, despite his faith and knowledge, he constantly found himself "doing that which he would not do, and not doing that which he would do."
Those that claim to totally move away from sin are either fooling themselves or acting as the hypocrites that Jesus claimed the Pharisees were with their publicly pious stage shows.
Repentence and conversion is a day in, day out effort.
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.”
It’s pretty clear - do the will of the Father.
Indeed, there will be among the saved that inhabit the new earth fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, homosexuals, thieves, the avaricious, drunkards, slanderers and swindlers who did little to nothing in their lives to honor and glorify God.
Uhhh. OK, what about scripture that tells us explicitly that such won't inherit?
The Calvinist/Reformed doctrine called "Perseverance of the Saints" doesn't work the same way as OSAS.
Once saved always saved is another of those doctrines that comes from a completely wrong understanding of eschatology, as demonstrated by the pastor’s use of the parable of the talents and Revelation.
Not knowing Rev. Laurie specifically, I'm going to gess Dispensationalist, probably.
Bad eschatology has consequences.
So exactly what in Pastor Greg’s explanation made sense?
Interpretations. Everybody has one.
Does all this mean that Elvis Priestley is in the heavenly band.
Faith is better used as a verb, as in to faithe. That makes the faith in Christ an action word and an ongoing act. If God has all of time as a volume before Him, He knows who professed in Christ, who faithed in Christ’s salvation, faithing in God’s saving Grace. (I have a little essay regarding this on my profile page, for anyone interested in more.)
“A Word study regarding salvation” ... it was originally offered on a Mormonism discussion thread, in response to the LDS notion of ‘salvation after all that you can do’.
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