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To: SpirituTuo; BroJoeK; Alex Murphy; Greetings_Puny_Humans; HarleyD; Springfield Reformer; Lera; ...
I apologize in advance for a brief response. We are in the middle of an out-of-state move.

We also, after 20 years of accumulations by God's grace, have much packing to do in our move in state (MA).

Regarding authentic authority, it was given to Peter, by Jesus, and that authority has been passed down over 2000 years to priests and bishops of the Roman Catholic Church. The Church remains intact, in spite of our leaders and our nature. All fall short in the glory of God.

That is simply argument by assertion. What is the real basis for your assurance that the RCC is the one true and infallible church?

Whether Popes have been impeccable, humble, or otherwise up to the task is of no consequence. God will not allow the Church to be destroyed. See Matthew 16:19.

I understand this, for Rome teaches,

[It is error to believe that], if the Pope were a reprobate and an evil man and consequently a member of the devil, he has no power over the faithful." Council of Constance, Condemnation of Errors, against Wycliffe, Session VIII, and Hus: Session XV; DNZ:621, 617, 588)

And as one of your "saints" stated,

"Even if the Pope were Satan incarnate, we ought not to raise up our heads against him, but calmly lie down to rest on his bosom." ( St. Catherine of Siena: A Biography By Anne B. Baldwin, p. 125,

But Scripture disallows such from even being a member of the church:

"But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat...Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person. " (1 Corinthians 5:11,13)

See Matthew 16:19.

But this is an interpretation, and the keys are shown to be the gospel, by faith in which one is translated into the kingdom of God's dear Son, (Col. 1:13) and the power to bind and loose and remit sins was not given to the apostles only, as context indicates. (Mt. 18:18; Jn. 20:23) Thus i ask again, what is the basis for your assurance that Rome is what she claims to be, and so that this verse is correctly understood by you?

Your final statements about the Pope are a pretty weak straw man. You clearly don’t understand the doctrine of infallibility, nor has anyone, in their right mind, consider the Pope a demigod. Rather, the assertion that my description is a straw is the straw man.

Definition of DEMIGOD

1 : a mythological being with more power than a mortal but less than a god

2 : a person so outstanding as to seem to approach the divine

Demigod: A person with great powers and abilities A person who is part mortal and part god (Wordweb)

Possessing assured infallibility (whenever speaking universally on faith and morals) is not promised anywhere to man, despite attempts to extrapolate it from promises of preservation that would also do the same for the Jewish magisterium.

In addition, " in their right mind" is your judgment, is opposed to what has been declared, which not only is, “..We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty...” (Pope Leo XIII, in Praeclara Gratulationis Publica” June 20, 1894) but consistent with this meaning sovereign autocratic power, Dollinger states,

“The Pope’s authority is unlimited, incalculable; it can strike, as Innocent III says, wherever sin is; it can punish every one; it allows no appeal and is itself Sovereign Caprice; for the Pope carries, according to the expression of Boniface VIII, all rights in the Shrine of his breast. As he has now become infallible, he can by the use of the little word, 'orbi,' (which means that he turns himself round to the whole Church) make every rule, every doctrine, every demand, into a certain and incontestable article of Faith. No right can stand against him, no personal or corporate liberty; or as the Canonists put it -- 'The tribunal of God and of the pope is one and the same.'” Ignaz von Dollinger, in “A Letter Addressed to the Archbishop of Munich”, 1871 (quoted in The Acton Newman Relations [Fordham University Press], by MacDougall, p 119 - 120 )

CCC : For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered.

Description of magnificent papal coronation

As Peter was given a new name so does the new Supreme Pontiff become known by another. After the election he extends his first blessing to the people -- a Benediction which was not given in the open for years until Pope Pius XI established the custom. The Coronation, one of the most magnificent of Vatican Ceremonies, takes place shortly after the election. With the Pope carried high in a golden chair and attended by brilliantly attired chamberlains and soldiers, the Coronation Mass is an unrivaled spectacle of beauty, dignity, and ancient pageantry. At the Coronation, in the midst of the pomp and splendor, a master of ceremonies recites in Latin: "Holy Father, thus does the glory of the world pass away."

As the first Cardinal Deacon places the three-crowned Tiara on the head of the Pope, he says: "Receive the three-crowned Tiara, and know that thou are the Father of Princes and Kings, the Pastor of the earth, and Vicar of Jesus Christ, to Whom be honor and glory forever. Amen." The CORONATION of Pope Pius XII took place on the balcony of St. Peter's in March 1939. (From the book "The Vatican and Holy Year" by Stephen S. Fenichell & Phillip Andrews -- 1950 edition. http://www.users.qwest.net/~slrorer/ReunionOfChristendom.htm)

I would concur with you that they were not in their right mind, but this treatment as a demigod with autocratic sovereign power is consistent with the Caesariopapacy which developed, with its use of the sword of men and papal sanctioned torture to deal with theological dissent.

Boniface VIII actually asserted,

“It is I who am Caesar; the Sovereign Pontiff is the only King of the Romans”, as he rode thru the city, carrying sword, globe and sceptre. (”Rome and its story”, p. 241, by Welbore St. Clair Baddeley, Lina Duff Gordon)

Along with this Caesar-like demigod status are popes enthroned in royal garments and estates, with brethren doing obeisance and kissing their feet as if they were exalted kings. Nowhere do we see such exalted treatment among NT brethren, and Peter would not allow it of himself. (Acts 10:25,26) And which stands in stark contrast the description the Holy Spirit provides of Peter, that of a poor man, living in the house of a tanner (a smelly occupation) and married. (Acts 3:6; 10; 1Cor. 9:5)

And even today the pope is singularly exalted far more than we see in Scripture, and thus those who hold that to be the standard should be grieved by such thinking of men "above that which is written " (1Cor. 4:6) and look forward to the day when

"the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day. " (Isaiah 2:17)

May i exalted Him more and consistently as i should.

147 posted on 06/17/2013 4:59:47 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: daniel1212
Boniface VIII actually asserted, “It is I who am Caesar; the Sovereign Pontiff is the only King of the Romans”, as he rode thru the city, carrying sword, globe and sceptre. (”Rome and its story”, p. 241, by Welbore St. Clair Baddeley, Lina Duff Gordon)

Acts 17:21-24

21 On the appointed day Herod, wearing his royal robes, sat on his throne and delivered a public address to the people. 22 They shouted, “This is the voice of a god, not of a man.” 23 Immediately, because Herod did not give praise to God, an angel of the Lord struck him down, and he was eaten by worms and died.

Seems that men don't learn from history..... 24 But the word of God continued to spread and flourish.

148 posted on 06/17/2013 5:34:14 AM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: daniel1212

Good luck in your move! We are in temporary quarters until the end of July.

The assertion of authentic authority is that given by Jesus Himself. He gave it to no one else. I could be wrong, but only Muhammad and Joseph Smith have claimed divine instruction to lead a religion.

The Church never teaches to accept bad behavior, but rather to counsel and pray for a change of heart of the one misbehaving. That goes for Popes, pastors, and laymen.

As we are all sinners, we can’t just go into a cave by ourselves, can we? Is that what Paul is telling the Corinthians? No. We shouldn’t fraternize with those who will lead us into sin, but should not ignore them. We should seek them out to minister to them.

The man who holds the office of Supreme Pontiff, acts as the Vicar of Christ on earth. His job is preach the Gospel and all it entails, as well as be the final arbiter of matter regarding faith and morals.

Regarding the coronation, that is neither dogmatic, nor doctrinal. In fact, the last Pope to wear the tiara was Paul VI. Since then, Popes have worn a simple mitre at their installation Mass.

Regarding feet kissing, I think you will find many pictures of recent popes washing the feet of others. Most recently, Pope Francis washed the feet of prisoners. Regarding swords, the only armed men at the command of the Pope are the Swiss Guard, which number around 500.

Finally, there hasn’t been sanctioned corporal punishment since the 1500s.


149 posted on 06/17/2013 6:29:45 AM PDT by SpirituTuo
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To: daniel1212
[It is error to believe that], if the Pope were a reprobate and an evil man and consequently a member of the devil, he has no power over the faithful." Council of Constance, Condemnation of Errors, against Wycliffe, Session VIII, and Hus: Session XV; DNZ:621, 617, 588).......... "Even if the Pope were Satan incarnate, we ought not to raise up our heads against him, but calmly lie down to rest on his bosom." ( St. Catherine of Siena: A Biography By Anne B. Baldwin, p. 125,

WOW! So there was talk back then about satan being lifted up through the RCC back then - and catholics were told to submit to him. And God's Word warned about it.....

....."I will ascend to heaven and set my throne above God's stars. I will preside on the mountain of the gods far away in the north. I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High."

Satan has his kingdom just like he wanted. God preserved His Word and He used Luther to fulfill....."I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it."

So what I thought was, unknowingly, by the RCC - they know it and bow to satan any way! And no wonder the children of the dark are taught - God's Word is not their final authority and are taught all the non biblical things like praying to the dead, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. It's deliberate - and pride will keep them there.

That's the reason they are 'so offended' by The Truth, gets angry when there is too much truth and looking to have Truth deleted, and gets defiant when it isn't and/or they battle against Truth with their lack of understanding of IT - and refuse to 'hear and obey' God's Word. There is no peace there - that's for sure - but unrest and confusion.

151 posted on 06/17/2013 7:43:44 AM PDT by presently no screen name
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