Those aren’t the precise words I would have used, but I as I understand them, they convey the substance of what I mean. Jesus made it quite clear that a privileged and deeper understanding of spiritual mysteries, along with authority, was conveyed to the apostles in particular — not to the disciples in general. Authority is conveyed not haphazardly. Nor is it left for the individual believer to discern on his own, but intentionally, by visible descent from the apostles.
Christianity is not a DIY religion, and the Bible is not an owner’s manual. Scripture DEMANDS our adherence to teachings ORALLY transmitted, whether past or future, coming from the apostles or else those authorized and sent by the apostles.
This sacred sacred tradition is essential to our salvation. You can’t reject it without rejecting the New Testament that testifies to it — over and over and over.
Romans 10:14ff: But how are men to call upon him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without a preacher? And how can men preach unless they are sent?
Acts 6:6 These they set before the apostles, and they prayed and laid their hands upon them.
Acts 8:17 Then they laid their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit.
1 Corinthians 11:2: “. . . keep the ordinances, as I delivered {them} to you.”
2 Thessalonians 2:15: “. . . hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.”
2 Thessalonians 3:6: “Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.”
1 Corinthians 15:1-3: “Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures.”
1 Thessalonians 2:13: “. . . when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received {it} not {as} the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.”
Jude 3: “. . . ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.”
Lk 1:1-5 Inasmuch as many have taken in hand to set in order a narrative of those things which have been fulfilled among us, just as those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word delivered them to us, it seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write to you an orderly account, most excellent Theophilus, that you may know the certainty of those things in which you were instructed.
1 Cor 11:23 For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you
Gal 1:9ff But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.
2 Pet 2:21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known [it,] to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.
John 20:30 And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book;
John 21:25 And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.
2 John 1:12 Having many things to write to you, I did not wish [to do so] with paper and ink; but I hope to come to you and speak face to face, that our joy may be full.
Matthew 17:5 While he was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them; and suddenly a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Hear Him!”
Luke 10:16 “He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.
Matthew 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Matthew 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Luke 24:45 Then he opened their minds to understand the scriptures.
Matthew 13:11 And he answered them, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given
Luke 8:10 he said, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of God; but for others they are in parables, so that seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not understand.
1 Timothy 3: 14-15 I hope to come to you soon, but I am writing these instructions to you so that, if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.
2 Peter 1:20 First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation.
2 Peter 3:16 There are some things in [Paul’s epistles] hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures.
1 Corinthians 11:2: “. . . keep the ordinances, as I delivered {them} to you.”
2 Thessalonians 2:15: “. . . hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.”
2 Thessalonians 3:6: “Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.”
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OK, now, tell us exactly what oral tradition it was to which Paul was referring and how anyone is to know that it was faithfully handed down over 2,000 years unchanged.
How is it verified both to be from Paul and as he stated it?
Those aren’t the precise words I would have used, but I as I understand them, they convey the substance of what I mean.
I see RCs often arguing that the Catholic church is the inheritor of Divine promises of preservation, and the instrument and steward of Holy Writ, and that Rome is the only church with historical descent, and thus all are to submit to her. While you want to argue that the magisterium is necessary, and why, is not the above your basic argument as to Rome being that magisterium?
After this we can continue.
Indeed they do, as you have made clear. According to your ecclesiology, rejection of those who are the instruments and stewards of Scripture and Divine revelation, and have historical descent means one has no authority to interpret Scripture and is to be rejected.
Thus you also have nuked the church.
Seeing as the church began in dissent from those who were the stewards of Holy Writ and the official teachers of it, and those who sat in the seat of Moses (Rm. 3:2; 9:4; Mt. 23:2) having historical descent and being the inheritor of the promises of God. (Rm. 3:2; 9:4; Lv. 10:11; Dt. 4:31; 17:8-13; Num. 23:19,23; Is. 41:10, Ps. 89:33,34; Mal. 3:6)
And who followed a itinerant Preacher, who reproved them by Scripture for teaching as doctrines mere tradition of the elders, (Mk. 7:3-16) and established His claims upon Scriptural substantiation, in text and in power, as did the apostles and early church. (Mt. 22:23-45; Lk. 24:27,44; Jn. 5:36,39; Acts 2:14-35; 4:33; 5:12; 15:6-21;17:2,11; 18:28; 28:23; Rm. 15:19; 2Cor. 12:12, etc.)
Under the Roman model souls would be told to reject this itinerant Preacher as a renegade, as in response to their demand, "By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority to do these things?," He invoked the baptism of a holy man in the desert eating insects, who also did not have the sanction of the magisterium.
But like Rome, they presumed a level of assured veracity and authority above what is written., (cf. 1Cor. 4:6)
But as Rome has infallibly declared she is and will be perpetually infallible whenever she speaks in accordance with her infallibly defined (scope and subject-based) formula, this renders her declaration that she is infallible, to be infallible, as well as all else she accordingly declares.
And wherein is your full assurance.
RCs argue that the church came before the Bible, meaning the entire Bible, but which does not establish an assuredly infallible church as supreme over any Scripture, which preceded it, any more than it did for Israel, which came before any Scripture was written (first by Moses).
And which writings, like true men of God, were progressively established as being of God due to their Divine qualities and attestation in conformity to what was prior established as from God.
And which the positional powers that be were to recognize and confirm, but as Scripture testifies, often they did not, but which did not change who or what they were, while judging the error of those who sat in power. Thus the church began in dissent and often by such faith is preserved.
The issue is that both the instruments and stewards of Holy Writ are inferior to it, neither being wholly inspired of God in all such say, and as written, Scripture was the transcendent standard for obedience and testing truth claims, as is abundantly evidenced . And thus it was upon Scriptural substantiation in word and in power that the church was established as being of God, and further complementary and confirmatory writings were established as being of God.
I have lot of packing etc. to do as we must move (someplace!), so i cannot get to the rest of your post till later.