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To: JCBreckenridge
So when the Catholic church says that the honor Mary, does that mean that they worship Mary?

Nope...But when we see and hear them worshiping Mary, they are worshiping Mary regardless of what title you guys give it...

If you see me whittling an idol of Mary but I tell you I'm actually eating a carrot, I ain't fooling anybody...And neither are you guys...

551 posted on 06/01/2013 6:42:13 AM PDT by Iscool
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To: Iscool

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2c/Virgen_de_guadalupe1.jpg/275px-Virgen_de_guadalupe1.jpg

Is this an Idol?


553 posted on 06/01/2013 6:48:52 AM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas is a state of mind - Steinbeck)
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To: Iscool
"But when we see and hear them worshiping Mary..."

The problem is far more fundamental than you not understanding Catholic teaching, you don't appear to understand worship.

577 posted on 06/01/2013 7:22:37 AM PDT by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a book, He left us a Church.)
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To: Iscool
The act of worship for Catholics is the holy sacrifice of the Mass. In the Mass the one sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christ on the cross is made present to us as he offers himself to the Father. This is our one and only act of worship. Throughout the Mass the prayers are always addressed to the Father. Even in Masses in honor of Mary the prayers are all addressed to the Father, not to Mary.

Here are two examples, the first from the Collect (Opening Prayer) on the Feast of Nativity of the Blessed Virgin Mary:

Impart to your servants, we pray, O Lord,
the gift of heavenly grace,
that the feast of the Nativity of the Blessed Virgin
may bring deeper peace
to those for whom the birth of her Son
was the dawning of salvation.
Through our Lord Jesus Christ, your Son,
who lives and reigns with you in the unity of the Holy Spirit,
one God, for ever and ever.
The second from the Preface of Blessed Virgin Mary:
It is truly right and just, our duty and our salvation,
always and everywhere to give you thanks,
Lord, holy Father, almighty and eternal God,
and to praise, bless, and glorify your name
(on the Solemnity of the Motherhood / on the feast day / on the Nativity / in veneration ) of the Blessed ever-Virgin Mary.
For by the overshadowing of the Holy Spirit
she conceived your Only Begotten Son,
and without losing the glory of virginity,
brought forth into the world the eternal Light,
Jesus Christ our Lord.
Through him the Angels praise your majesty,
Dominions adore and Powers tremble before you.
Heaven and the Virtues of heaven and the blessed Seraphim
worship together with exultation.
May our voices, we pray, join with theirs
in humble praise, as we acclaim:

Holy, Holy, Holy Lord God of hosts . . .

And of course the actual act of worship is the offering of the Sacrifice of Jesus to the Father. From the Roman Canon of the Mass:
Therefore, O Lord,
as we celebrate the memorial of the blessed Passion,
the Resurrection from the dead,
and the glorious Ascension into heaven
of Christ, your Son, our Lord,
we, your servants and your holy people,
offer to your glorious majesty
from the gifts that you have given us,
this pure victim,
this holy victim,
this spotless victim,
the holy Bread of eternal life
and the Chalice of everlasting salvation.

Be pleased to look upon these offerings
with a serene and kindly countenance,
and to accept them,
as once you were pleased to accept
the gifts of your servant Abel the just,
the sacrifice of Abraham, our father in faith,
and the offering of your high priest Melchizedek,
a holy sacrifice, a spotless victim.

In humble prayer we ask you, almighty God:
command that these gifts be borne
by the hands of your holy Angel
to your altar on high
in the sight of your divine majesty,
so that all of us, who through this participation at the altar
receive the most holy Body and Blood of your Son,
may be filled with every grace and heavenly blessing.
(Through Christ our Lord. Amen.)

So I hope that you will have the honesty to admit that Catholics do not worship Mary.
602 posted on 06/01/2013 7:54:39 AM PDT by Petrosius
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