Posted on 05/12/2013 5:55:26 PM PDT by narses
Full Question
Until recently, I always thought Catholics worshiped on the Sabbath, and that the early Church moved the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. Is this true? Answer
This is a common misunderstanding. Catholics do not worship on the Sabbath, which according to Jewish law is the last day of the week (Saturday), when God rested from all the work he had done in creation (Gen. 2:2-3). Catholics worship on the Lord’s Day, the first day of the week (Sunday, the eighth day); the day when God said "Let there be light" (Gen. 1:3); the day when Christ rose from the dead; the day when the Holy Spirit came upon the Apostles (Day of Pentecost). The Catechism of the Catholic Church says: "The Church celebrates the day of Christ’s Resurrection on the ‘eighth day,’ Sunday, which is rightly called the Lord’s Day" (CCC 2191).
The early Church did not move the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. Instead "The Sabbath, which represented the completion of the first creation, has been replaced by Sunday, which recalls the new creation inaugurated by the Resurrection of Christ" (CCC 2190). Sunday is the day Catholics are bound to keep, not Saturday.
We see evidence of this in Scripture:
On the first day of the week when we gathered to break bread, Paul spoke to them because he was going to leave on the next day, and he kept on speaking until midnight (Acts 20:7). On the first day of the week each of you should set aside and save whatever one can afford, so that collections will not be going on when I come (1 Cor. 16:2). Let no one, then, pass judgment on you in matters of food and drink or with regard to a festival or new moon or Sabbath (Col. 2:16). The Catechism also says:
By a tradition handed down from the apostles which took its origin from the very day of Christ’s Resurrection, the Church celebrates the Paschal mystery every seventh day, which day is appropriately called the Lord’s Day or Sunday. The day of Christ’s Resurrection is both the first day of the week, the memorial of the first day of creation, and the "eighth day," on which Christ after his "rest" on the great Sabbath inaugurates the "day that the Lord has made," the "day that knows no evening." (CCC 1166)
Other CCC references to the Lord’s Day: 349, 2174, 2175, 2191
Answered by: Peggy Frye
Act 15:21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath."
Indeed, notice what the text states, that Moses was being read in the synagogues every Sabbath - not the churches which are shown coming together to break break upon the beginning of the 1st day, and having service then. (Acts 20:7) And considering the cardinal importance that you see sabbath keeping having, it is incongruous that this command be not manifestly affirmed under the new covenant.
Indeed, your entire post utterly fails to provide what is desperately needed, that of any reiteration or repetition of the 4th commandment under the new covenant, yet the other 9 are, while the only teaching under the new covenant is that which refers to the sabbath or sabbath days being a shadow of things to come, (Col 2:16) a rest which typifies what believers gain by faith, )Heb. 4) or any record of the disciples specifically having meetings on the 7th day, while they specifically met more than once on the 1st day, as shown.
Do you believe all those who do not keep the 7th day commandment, once told, are lost?
What you need to understood here is that Paul is addressing "ascetic Gnosticism" which had begun to creep into the Colossian Church.
You are distorting the teaching. What is indicated is that there are two aspects of the Pauline censure, one of which is obviously the ceremonial law, which, while itself "the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good," (Romans 7:12) yet which in its entirety shows man he cannot keep literally it all, and thus Peter calls it "a yoke" "which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear," (Acts 15:10) and Paul states teaches regarding "meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ." (Colossians 2:16-17)
Gnostic beliefs were simply NOT a shadow of things to come, but laws regarding "meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation, (Hebrews 9:10) were. And thus Paul states regarding "meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days," that Christ blotted "out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross." (Colossians 2:14)
And thus Paul also mentions circumcision, which was an everlasting statute (Gn. 17) that preceded the law, but which is abrogated under the new covenant.
"In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ." (Colossians 2:11)
If you want to mandate keeping the 7th day sabbath in order to be saved you also need to require circumcision in order to be saved.
However, a brand of Gnostics used Jewish practices as part of their philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ, (Colossians 2:8) and which included false asceticism (Touch not; taste not; handle not) and obeisance to angels, which men were "intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind." (Colossians 2:18)
But by showing the Christians were free from the ceremonial law which were shadows, Paul disarmed the Gnostics and focused them on Christ, not the sabbath or dietary and temple shadows , but the body that made the shadow, from whom "all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God."
They were being ostracized by their pagan neighbors for doing exactly what you folks think Paul was telling them not to do. Think!
That is absurd. Paul is clearly referring to them being judged for not observing the ceremonial ordinances, of which the sabbaths were a part.
f Paul had been writing about the weekly Sabbath he would have used the word SABBATON
A false dilemma fallacy. See here or here .
Do you believe all those who do not keep the 7th day commandment, once told, or the dietary laws, or are Trinitarians, are lost? Just to know how much time i should spend trying to reason with you.
FOTFLOL!!!!
NOT SO! I'm tired of plowing over this old ground again. “The first day of the week”
Well then.......perhaps you should not bother reading my posts .... because it is very obvious you are rejecting truth. I would suggest you simply not plow anymore as my posts are directed to folks who have not yet been totally corrupted by the Church of Rome and her pathetic daughters.
Outside of eight texts in the NT [Matthew 28:1][Mark 16:2; 9][Luke 24:1][John 20:1;19][Acts 20:7] and [1Corithians 16:2], where we find μια των σαββατων translated as "first day of the week", there is no example of σαββατων having the meaning of "week" in any Greek literature before AD 100....... and then only in "Church" Greek after that. The first attested use in this sense in Didache 8.1. This sense is entirely wanting in Secular Greek, the LXX, Josephus, Philo, or any other Greek literature of Jewish provenance before the destruction of the Second Temple except for these eight texts. That sense is also entirely lacking in classical and Koine Greek except for its alleged use in these eight texts.
Furthermore, these eight texts are not just ordinary examples where nothing is at stake. What is at stake here is the original separation of Christianity from its Jewish roots, and the justifications supplied for this schism. Therefore, we may rightly suspect that the alleged sense of "first day of the week" is due to opportunistic revisionism based on sectarian religious and political motivations.
So..........go ahead and believe your phoney Translations and Lexicons that were all put together by folks who grew up in the Church. Good grief! What else would you expect them to say?
I guess you never got the word. The Sabbath was the Lord's Day!
[Matthew 12:8]For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
How utterly clear this one passage demolishes the pagan Sunday rituals...... that are completely unknown from scripture.
I don't believe I've ever said such a stupid thing (but of course you're welcome to go back and check all my posts for the last decade or so).
You are distorting the teaching........
I'm distorting nothing. I'm just eliminating all the Catholic nonsense that's part of the baggage with this silliness you present.
" that Christ blotted "out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross." (Colossians 2:14)
You need to educate yourself as to what this really means.........."handwriting of ordinances".
[Colossians 2:14]Blotting out the handwriting of "ordinances" that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
The Greek: 14ἐξαλείψας upon OBLITERATION-ing (nom|voc) τὸ the (nom|acc) καθ’ down, according to (+acc), against (+gen) ἡμῶν us (gen)χειρόγραφον certificate of debt (nom|acc|voc) τοῖς the (dat) δόγμασιν dogmas (dat) , ὃ who/whom/which (nom|acc) ἦν he/she/it-was ὑπεναντίον adversarial ([Adj] acc, nom|acc|voc) ἡμῖν us (dat) • καὶ and/also αὐτὸ it/same (nom|acc) ἦρκεν he/she/it-has-TAKE UP-ed ἐκ out of (+gen) τοῦ the (gen) μέσου middle ([Adj] gen); be-you(sg)-BE-ing-HALF-DONE!, be-you(sg)-being-BE-ed-HALF-DONE! , προσηλώσας you(sg)-NAIL-ed, upon NAIL-ing (nom|voc) αὐτὸ it/same (nom|acc) τῷ the (dat) σταυρῷ cross (dat) •
Ordinances are from the Greek DOKEO (Dogma) Strong's 1378. The word is also used in [Ephesians 2:15] and variations in [Acts 16:4][Acts 17:7] and [Luke 2:1]. Let's take a look.
[Ephesians 2:15] 15Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances (DOGMA); for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Sounds about the same as [Colossians 2:14].
[Acts 16:4] 4And as they went through the cities, they delivered them the decrees (DOGMA) "δόγματα" for to keep, that were ordained of the apostles and elders which were at Jerusalem.
[Acts 17:7] 7Whom Jason hath received: and these all do contrary to the decrees (DOGMA) "δογμάτων" of Caesar, saying that there is another king, one Jesus.
[Luke 2:1] 1And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree (DOGMA) "δόγμα" from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.
Do you notice it? DOGMA is man made decree....as was the Law of Moses...... and the Talmud with its Rabbinical decrees which superseded it.
The Ten Commandments are never called DOGMA because they are divinely given by Yahweh...............not man.
Again....the Church has taken a very simple biblical meaning and twisted it to widen the gap between themselves and their Hebrew origins. Shame on them!
On the First of the Sabbaths, or SUNDAY.
When the Jews reckoned the days of the week they always used the day in it’s relationship to the Sabbath.
Sunday was the first of the Sabbaths.
Monday was the second of the Sabbaths.
ect.
For example, one of the Pharisees said he “fasted twice in the Sabbaths”, a reference to their twice in a week fast.
And on the road to Emus, one of the men traveling with a disguised JESUS said, concerning the events of the past days, “Today is the third day”.
Sunday= first of the Sabbaths.
Monday = second of the Sabbaths.
Tuesday= third day of the Sabbaths.
Wednesday= forth day of the Sabbaths.
Thursday= fifth day o the Sabbaths.
Friday = sixth day of the Sabbaths.
Saturday= SABBATH.
They did not have names for the days of the weeks but used the term 1st, 2nd, 3rd of the Sabbaths.
So, when you see the term first of the Sabbaths it means first day of the week.
Check any lexicon or Greek translation.
Yeah, I just don’t get how we can argue over something that just makes sense. As a former Jew, I get the switch to Sunday. It makes complete sense.
I also do not understand how in one breath I hear certain Protestant folks saying Christ did not (and can not) change the laws of the OT and in another breath say that there is no longer a Sabbath. Which one is it?
Here is how we tangled in the past over sabbatharianism and other things.
http://freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2810571/posts?page=1
Just who is it that has authored all these Lexicons and Greek translations for the last 1700 years? Folks who have been brought up in the false tradition of a Sunday resurrection. Like I said earlier.........,"What else would you expect them to say?"
Now why don't you take the BDAG (considered the best Lexicon available) and find any reference to σαββάτων meaning anything other than the plural form of σαββάτῳ....and this word being the designation for annual (and counted) Sabbaths, i.e. Unleavened Bread, Pentecost, Trumpets, Atonement and Tabernacles. Please check all references before 100 A.D. You'll find none because that's not what the Greek word meant.....until the Early Church Fathers began substituting fantasy for biblical chronology.
Like I said......you believe what you want. I'm here to bring truth to lurkers who have not yet been corrupted by Catholicism!
The Holy Spirit had no dog in the “first day.”
The first day was significant only in numeric order; the sabbath was the worship day, which was transitioned out during the evening after the sabbath, which just happened to be the beginning of the Hebrew work week.
Poppycock!
Have you never heard of the "Count of the Omer"? [Leviticus 23:15-16]And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete: Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD.
Seven sabbaths were to be counted from the Feast of First-fruits or Passover. Consequently, these came to be known as "First Sabbath," "Second Sabbath" etc., down to the seventh. And according to Julian Morgenstern, former President of Hebrew University, this practice continued in Galilee till the time of Christ or the Common Era. It is still observed by some groups in Palestine today. Thus, there was an annual date known as "First Sabbath," just after Passover. [page 230, The Life of Christ in Stereo]
***Like I said......you believe what you want. I’m here to bring truth to lurkers who have not yet been corrupted by Catholicism! ****
Well that should be easy to answer. The NT was written in GREEK. So, just what day do the GREEK ORTHODOX gather? Sunday. Now how could they get THE DAY OF THE LORD wrong since they speak, think, read, write in GREEK.
***Have you never heard of the “Count of the Omer”?***
Of course I’ve heard of it and discussed it many times here on FR. The Feast of the First fruits was on the day AFTER the weekly Sabbath, or SUNDAY. counted seven days till the next, until you reach Pentecost which is also on SUNDAY, the day the Apostles gathered together and the Holy Spirit was poured out on them.
The "dogma" pertains to "the law of commandments" which set the Gentles at enmity as those who were "aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world;" (Eph. 2:12) and which enmity is what Christ abolished as one who fulfilled the law and made atonement for all, so as to save all believers by grace thru efficacious faith.
This included the abrogation of typological laws, of "meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation," (Hebrews 9:10) and likewise holydays, or the new moon, or the sabbaths, of which class the weekly sabbath fits into, and typifies the rest promised to believers by faith. (Heb. 4).
And thus neither Gentiles or food that was ceremonially (profane) or impure was to held as such when sanctified by Christ, for having slain the enmity of the law by the atonement, through him both both Jews and Gentles "have access by one Spirit unto the Father." (Eph. 2:18)
But you must keep the dietary laws as well as the sabbath, and to be consistent, you should mandate circumcision as well since it is a everlasting covenant which preceded the law of Moses. (Gn. 17:7-10)
Again....the Church has taken a very simple biblical meaning and twisted it to widen the gap between themselves and their Hebrew origins. Shame on them!
And so i ask again, where does that leave those who are born again but are persuaded the NT does not reiterate the 4th commandment unlike those others, or example the NT church specifically meeting thereon but classes to Sabbath in the context of typological laws. Lost or possibly saved.
Why don't we ask some earlier Greeks?
Polycrates, Bishop of Ephesus; [From His Epistle to Victor and the Roman Church Concerning the Day of Keeping the Passover]
As for us, then, we scrupulously observe the exact day,2 neither adding nor taking away. For in Asia great luminaries3 have gone to their rest, who shall rise again in the day of the coming of the Lord, when He cometh with glory from heaven and shall raise again all the saints. I speak of Philip, one of the twelve apostles,4 who is laid to rest at Hierapolis; and his two daughters, who arrived at old age unmarried;5 his other daughter also, who passed her life6 under the influence of the Holy Spirit, and reposes at Ephesus; John, moreover, who reclined on the Lord's bosom, and who became a priest wearing the mitre,7 and a witness and a teacher-he rests at Ephesus. Then there is Polycarp, both bishop and martyr at Smyrna; and Thraseas from Eumenia, both bishop and martyr, who rests at Smyrna. Why should I speak of Sagaris, bishop and martyr, who rests at Laodicea? of the blessed Papirius, moreover? and of Melito the eunuch,8 who performed all his actions under the influence of the Holy Spirit, and lies at Sardis, awaiting the visitation9 from heaven, when he shall rise again from the dead? These all kept the passover on the fourteenth day of the month, in accordance with the Gospel, without ever deviating from it, but keeping to the rule of faith.
Moreover I also, Polycrates, who am the least of you all, in accordance with the tradition of my relatives, some of whom I have succeeded-seven of my relatives were bishops, and I am the eighth, and my relatives always observed the day when the people put away10 the leaven-I myself, brethren, I say, who am sixty-five years old in the Lord, and have fallen in with the brethren in all parts of the world, and have read through all Holy Scripture, am not frightened at the things which are said to terrify us. For those who are greater than I have said, "We ought to obey God rather than men."
What do you think he meant by the words, "In accordance with the gospel?"
Did you notice......the last living Apostle, John has here, instructed his disciples and their followers well into the second century to keep the Passover and observe the Days of Unleavened? Do you think he said...."Well boys....it's now O.K. to observe Sundays as your day of rest.....cause the Greeks say it's alright? Of course he didn't. He observed the Sabbath and taught others to do the same. So did the Apostle Paul!
Have you never heard of the great schism? Polycrates link
You're digging your hole deeper.............
Because they did it does not mean all Christians celebrated the Resurrection at the same time. Even the Jews changed the keeping of the Feast of the First fruits, tieing it to the Passover when it was originally celebrated at the end of the week when the first crops were brought in on the day after the weekly sabbath.
Again, in the light of what He does say on meetings on the 1st day, and the absence of specifically meeting on the 7th, and on what He does on the other 9 commandments, and the absence of any reiteration of the 4th commandment to the church, and of what is said regarding the typological nature of days, then i cannot subscribe to your dismissal.
What makes it worse is that some that those who sanctify the 1st day instead are lost, though i do not know where you stand.
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