Jesus not found outside the Church, Pope preaches

Catholic News Agency ^ | 04/23/13 | Estefania Aguirre

[Brian Kopp DPM]

Jesus not found outside the Church, Pope preaches :: Catholic News Agency (CNA)

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/jesus-not-found-outside-the-church-pope-preaches/

April 23, 2013

Pope Francis celebrates Mass in St. John Lateran on March 29, 2013. Credit: Stephen Driscoll/CNA.

Vatican City, Apr 23, 2013 / 07:39 am (CNA/EWTN News).- Pope Francis said that people cannot be fully united to Jesus outside of the Church during a Mass to commemorate Saint George, the saint he is named after.

“You cannot find Jesus outside the Church,” he said April 23 in the Apostolic Palace’s Pauline Chapel.

“It is the Mother Church who gives us Jesus, who gives us the identity that is not only a seal, it is a belonging,” he declared in his homily.

The pontiff spoke about Christian identity as well as persecution, making it the sixth time in two weeks he has mentioned those who suffer for the faith.

Speaking about the Gospel reading for today from Saint John, Pope Francis underscored that “the missionary expansion of the Church began precisely at a time of persecution.”

“They had this apostolic fervor within them, and that is how the faith spread!” he exclaimed.

It was through the Holy Spirit’s initiative that the Gospel was proclaimed to the Gentiles, the Pope noted, and the Spirit “pushes more and more in this direction of opening the proclamation of the Gospel to all.”

The pontiff also repeated a line from his April 17 homily in St. Martha’s residence, when he emphasized that being a Christian is not like having “an identity card.”

“Christian identity is belonging to the Church, because all of these (the apostles) belonged to the Church, the Mother Church, because finding Jesus outside the Church is impossible,” he said.

“The great Paul VI said it is an absurd dichotomy to want to live with Jesus but without the Church, following Jesus out of the Church, loving Jesus without the Church,” he added.

Pope Francis said that “if we are not sheep of Jesus, faith does not come” and that it is “a rosewater faith and a faith without substance.”

The Pope also commented on Barnabas, who was sent to Antioch and was glad to see that the grace of God had encouraged people there to remain true disciples.

“Let us think of the consolations that Barnabas had, which is the sweet and comforting joy of evangelizing,” he preached.

“Let us ask the Lord for this frankness, this apostolic fervor that impels us to move forward, as brothers, all of us forward,” he remarked.

After the Mass in the papal chapel, the Swiss Guard band offered a brief musical performance in the Courtyard of Saint Damaso for the Pope’s name day.

[FatherofFive]

I know enough

But what you know is wrong. You don't understand Greek or Aramaic. You are just making things up.

[Yashcheritsiy]

But that is not what Jesus said. You are just making that up to support your man-made belief.

Well yeah, when you actually look at the language and context, that IS what Jesus said.

[Yashcheritsiy]

But what you know is wrong. You don't understand Greek or Aramaic. You are just making things up.

I, on the other hand, DO understand Greek and Aramaic (the latter less so), and SA is quite right in what he's saying.

[ShadowAce]

I also know one other thing quite well--I am not going to convince you of anything through an Internet discussion board.

I do not make things up. I do not lie. I do not fabricate things out of air just to make a point. Everything I've said is supported by Scripture and language texts.

I do not condemn Catholics. But I will not belong to an organization that willfully misinterprets Scripture.

[Iscool]

I read the first couple and then happened to pause for a second on this one...

81. On equally unbiblical grounds, Protestantism opposes law to grace.

Not only do Protestants oppose law to grace, so does Jesus Christ...

You're just going to hurt yourself posting that trash put out by your religion...

Joh 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

You really ought to spend some time in the scriptures before you jump off the deep end and contradict God...

[Iscool]

There is no problem once you understand that Jesus and Peter did not speak Greek. Or Latin. Or English.

Well just post that Aramaic bible then so we can all see what Jesus really said...Or does that exclusively belong to the Catholic religion??? Or maybe it doesn't and never did exist???

[johngrace]

Read it whole. Not piecemeal.

[FatherofFive]

I, on the other hand, DO understand Greek and Aramaic

Prove it. Show me where I am wrong.

[FatherofFive]

Well just post that Aramaic bible then so we can all see what Jesus really said...

Get serious.

Are you saying Jesus spoke Greek to Peter?

To understand the Greek you need need to understand the Aramaic, and how it translates.

[Mad Dawg]

Okay, the statement about withholding the cup was false.

As to the breaking of the bread, it takes place right before the Communion. Usually (always?) the Agnus Dei is said or sung as the bread is broken.

If you are actually drinking blood and eating flesh, by breaking bread then you would be ripping Jesus body apart before you eat it...Is that why you guys don't take it that far???

If you really want to understand this, in light of the fact that the breaking is part of the Mass, you will do best to start here and read the next ten questions, especially Q.75, Q.76, and Q.77, and most especially Q. 77, Article 7. Whether the sacramental species are broken in this sacrament?

This is all in the public domain. Anybody who wants to know what we teach BEFORE he attacks it, can find it out with a little work.

[FatherofFive]

then why didn't they translate both presumed appearances of tsela as petros, to make it completely clear that Peter was the rock that Matthew was writing about?

The Bible wasn't written as the definitive Christian belief system. For the first several hundred years of the Christian faith, THERE WAS NO BIBLE. But the faith was taught by the Church. Yes, the Catholic Church, which gave us the Bible.

It wasn't until the 1500's and the heresy of the Reformation that a 'new' Chritianity was established.

A few questions:

1) Where did Jesus give instructions that the Christian faith should be based exclusively on a book?

2) Where did Jesus tell His apostles to write anything down and compile it into an authoritative book?

3) Where in the New Testament do the apostles tell future generations that the Christian faith will be based solely on a book?

[FatherofFive]

I am not going to convince you of anything through an Internet discussion board.

Well, you could if what you say was accurate, Scripural and convincing. You haven't so far.

[FatherofFive]

then why didn't they translate both presumed appearances of tsela as petros, to make it completely clear that Peter was the rock that Matthew was writing about?

It really wouldn't matter. You do not believe that "This is my Body" means 'This is my Body"

Let’s look at the Greek

Estin- is 3rd person singular active indicative

Mat 3:17 and behold, a voice out of the heavens, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased."
Mat 3:17 kai idou fwnh ek twn ouranwn legousa outov estin o uiov mou o agaphtov en w eudokhsa

So, is Jesus the Son of God, or does he represent the son of God?

Mat 17:5 While he was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them; and behold, a voice out of the cloud, saying, "This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to Him!"
Mat 17:5 eti autou lalountov idou nefelh fwteinh epeskiasen autouv kai idou fwnh ek thv nefelhv legousa outov estin o uiov mou o agaphtov en w eudokhsa tsbautou akouete aautou

Again, is Jesus the Son of God, or does he represent the son of God?

Mat 26:26 And while they were eating, Jesus took some bread, and after a blessing, He broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, "Take, eat; this is My body."
Mat 26:26 esqiontwn de autwn labwn o ihsouv ton arton kai euxaristhsav euloghsav eklasen kai douv edidou toiv maqhtaiv tsbkai eipen labete fagete touto estin to swma mou

This is the same estin. By what logic do you change the estin here to mean ‘represents’? There is no logic to support your tradition.

Mat 26:28 for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins.
Mat 26:28 touto gar estin to aima mou to thv kainhv diaqhkhv to peri pollwn ekxunnomenon ekxunomenon eiv afesin amartiwn

This is the same estin. By what logic do you change the estin here to mean ‘represents’? There is no logic to support your tradition.

Mar 14:22 And while they were eating, He took some bread, and after a blessing He broke it; and gave it to them, and said, "Take; this is My body."
Mar 14:22 kai esqiontwn autwn labwn o ihsouv arton euloghsav eklasen kai edwken autoiv kai eipen labete fagete touto estin to swma mou

This is the same estin. By what logic do you change the estin here to mean ‘represents’? There is no logic to support your tradition.

Mar 14:24 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many.
Mar 14:24 kai eipen autoiv touto estin to aima mou tsbto thv kainhv diaqhkhv to ekxunnomenon uper peri pollwn ekxunomenon

This is the same estin. By what logic do you change the estin here to mean ‘represents’? There is no logic to support your tradition.

[ShadowAce]

Jeremiah 5:21

[FatherofFive]

Jeremiah 5:21

That clearly describes you, my FRiend.

[sasportas]

Your “150 reasons” reminds me of the book put out back in the 1980’s called “88 Reasons the rapture will take place in 1988.” ALL 88 reasons were wrong, as are yours.

The RCC is an impostor masquerading as the true church, a form of paganized Christianity, a totalitarian Machiavellian institution with a long history of persecuting Christians who refuse to be subservient to the Pope.

Their form of totalitaianism in the name of Christ is of the same sort as Hitler and Stalin. The very antithesis of what America is all about. America is about FREEDOM not totalitarian oppression, secular or religious.

The Pilgrims and Puritans came to this land to seek freedom from the Kings, emperors, and popes, of Europe. Yet here we have it thrown in our face continually on this, a supposedly freedom loving conservative site. Go figure.

[evangmlw]

" and upon THIS rock." Context is of utmost importance in the interpretation of Scripture. What is the context that leads into this statement by Jesus? The context is Peter's confession of Christ as the Messiah, as GOD. The context is Peter's belief in who Christ is. And what did Paul reiterate in Romans 10:9,10? "If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord......" Peter confessed Christ, and his confession of Christ is the key to understanding what Jesus is say. Jesus is not setting up a group of succesional Popes here, but laying the foundation of salvation, confession and belief in Christ the rOCK, not Peter the rock.

[FatherofFive]

not Peter the rock

But Peter the Rock is Scripture. Your belief is not what Scripture says. That is the beauty of the "reformation" - everyone can believe what they want to believe. "Heresy is Us"

[FatherofFive]

“And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter (Rock, petra), and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” Mat 6:18

Scripture clearly calls Peter the rock upon which the church will be built. If it meant what you believe, why doesn't Scripture say what you want it to mean?

[GeronL]

he is getting his way, soon there will be no religion allowed outside of the walls of the church anyway

sounds very cultish to say “we are the only true Christians”