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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
Isa_48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

This is a way of saying that the spirit of God caused him to go there. He's not making a statement about an entity called "the holy spirit" in heaven.

If the Holy Spirit does not exist “in heaven,” He would not be side by side the Father and the Son in the baptismal formula, who are both “in heaven”.

I've showed you two instances of visions of the Godhead in heaven and there is no creature there with the name of "holy spirit" shown or presented. There are many more instances if you would like me to show them I will.

As far as scripture goes there is no clear picture of a trinity. This isn't even debatable. The proof of that is that it took over 3 CENTURIES of debate before the trinity was fully evolved and made part of doctrine.

Read Council of Constantinople

The current understanding of the trinity evolved over the centuries by what became the Catholic church. Protestants kept his tradition when they split from Rome.

But biblically the overwhelming picture is one of the father and son as being the Godhead.

This is not only reflected in the visions of the Godhead as revealed in scripture but in virtually all the letters from Paul:

Rom_1:7 To all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

No greeting from an entity called "the holy spirit". It's like that in all of Paul's letters.

Concerning Matthew 28:19:

Mat 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

I think you'll agree that this is NOT a description of the Godhead, but a baptismal formula. It's likely a bad translation (or perhaps a later alteration) or the idea found in Acts:

Act_2:38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Note that the first disciples baptized in the name of Christ and received the GIFT of the holy spirit. Matthew 28:19 is simply an affirmation that baptism is needed ultimately to get the spirit of the Lord.

This isn't an isolated incident in Acts either:

Act_8:12 But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.

Act_8:16 For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Act_10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.

Act_19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Act_22:16 And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.'

87 posted on 04/09/2013 2:51:18 PM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: DouglasKC

“This is a way of saying that the spirit of God caused him to go there. He’s not making a statement about an entity called “the holy spirit” in heaven.”


It says “The Lord GOD, and his Spirit.” It does not say “The Lord God’s Spirit.” This is a plurality.

“I’ve showed you two instances of visions of the Godhead in heaven and there is no creature there with the name of “holy spirit” shown or presented.”


First of all, the Holy Spirit is “not a creature.” In fact, we are specifically told that the Holy Spirit is God. The Holy Spirit fills all believers, as promised by Christ:

Joh_7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

And we are called the Temples of God as a result, for He dwells in us:

1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

As for your quotes, they don’t prove anything you are arguing. I gave you scripture quotes where the Holy Spirit stands side by side the Father and the Son. No one is getting baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and then a Creature that doesn’t exist. The Son is not being sent by just the Lord GOD, but the Spirit also. The Comforter is not the Father or the Son, but is sent by the Father:

Joh_14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Joh_14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Joh_15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father, is differentiated from the Father, and is equal with the Father and the Son as seen in the baptism of believers.

“As far as scripture goes there is no clear picture of a trinity. This isn’t even debatable. “


Please don’t project your ignorance of the scripture on us. I’ve already disproven your blasphemies.

“No greeting from an entity called “the holy spirit”. It’s like that in all of Paul’s letters.”


Just a farewell, I suppose:

2Co_13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.

“I think you’ll agree that this is NOT a description of the Godhead, but a baptismal formula. It’s likely a bad translation (or perhaps a later alteration) or the idea found in Acts:”


It’s a description of how believers ought to be baptized in the name of God, who is Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit. Unless you can provide for me evidence that we are not to be baptized in the name of God.

If you deny that the scripture is accurate, don’t say “probably.” Please provide evidence for your claim, and nothing more.

“This isn’t an isolated incident in Acts either:”


As has been shown, the trinity of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is not an isolated incident in the scriptures.


89 posted on 04/09/2013 3:45:13 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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