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To: Natural Law

“I have provided evidence,”


You’ve provided bumper-sticker snippets, avoided the issue of whether or not you burn fish guts to ward off evil spirits as in Tobit, amongst other challenges, and then responded by giving general guidelines about how you read scripture (without reading any scripture), and then, finally, asserted I don’t take Biblical verses literally, including ones that don’t even exist (John 5:57?), and then when I respond to it, you assert I’ve made bumper-sticker responses.

“As Gamaliel warned the Sanhedrin many false prophets and movements have arisen in history.”


Gamaliel is not a Christian. The Christian takes matters of truth very seriously, and is not agnostic about them, seeing what will come.


310 posted on 04/12/2013 12:37:26 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
"...avoided the issue of whether or not you burn fish guts to ward off evil spirits as in Tobit...

First, let’s agree to not allow this discussion to devolve into any personal animus. While I enjoy discussing issues and ideas, I dislike friction and resentment.

That said, I am not going to participate in a game of gotcha or as I call it "Pin the tail on the Papist". I am not trying to correct or proselytize anyone. Nor am I trying to damage anyone's faith. I am only posting to ensure that the teachings of the Church are presented accurately. Sometimes that requires that I make observations about non-Catholic belief systems to form comparisons or contrasts and to those I welcome educated responses.

The sad thing for me is that you are making unsubstantiated charges in spite of me trying to answer you in significant depth. I apologize if I am not answering as you hoped. Let me ask you a few questions regarding the premises you are trying to construct your syllogism upon. Maybe they will help advance the discussion.

Can you tell me if the referenced misunderstood citation from Tobit (Chapt 8) must be or can only be interpreted in the literal and historical sense? Are you aware that the saving of the liver and heart had been done at the instructions of the Archangel Raphael (Tobit Chapt 6)? Or that the fish had been caught in the Tigris River, or that it was a demon possessed "very large fish” that had leaped out of the water and attempted to eat his foot not unlike demons Legion who entered the swine leaped into the Sea Galilee (Luke 8:26-39 )? Or if there was some spiritual symbolism behind a fish’s liver and heart placed on embers intended for incense? Or if incense is literally or symbolically effective in worship? Can you comment if the demon actually went to the upper regions of Egypt pursued by the Raphael?

I also find it distressing that you would assume, a priori, that I don’t read Scripture. I spend many hours each week reading Scripture and more hours ruminating about it. Too often I see from Protestants and other non-Catholics is an attempt to divide the Word. They seem to be of the impression that one must choose EITHER Sacred Scripture OR Sacred Tradition and insist that they are mutually exclusive. They further seem to insist that because Catholics embrace the Sacred Tradition we have abandoned and are ignorant of the Bible. I can assure you that simply not true. As for the nonexistent verse, I already responded that it was a typo (note the 5 and the 6 are next to each other on every QWERTY keyboard). It was ironic that you had a typo in your retort in which you got the verb tense of "broke" (brake) wrong and the "o" and the "a" are nowhere near each other.

Peace be with you

312 posted on 04/12/2013 1:22:07 PM PDT by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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