Replies

Hmmmm...afflatus...I had to look that word up. It means: noun 1. inspiration; an impelling mental force acting from within. 2. divine communication of knowledge. I don't think you evidence such a gift, either. I don't blame Catholics for hating a man who spoke his mind about the deplorable condition of the Catholic Church in his day. I would hope that, had you been living at that time, you would have agreed with him. But hearing such words about an organization that requires total obedience and worship from its members probably is painful enough that any and every attempt is made to smear the man, who, living five hundred years ago cannot defend himself anymore except by the writings he left and the expectation that at least honest people would understand his message.

Your diatribes will do nothing do dissuade me from admiring the bravery and honesty of a man who loved the Lord Jesus Christ enough to speak out against the injustices and depravity of the church he had loved. It's curious that on this thread it was mentioned that of the 95 thesis Luther enjoined, that on nearly two-thirds of the points, the Catholic Church DID indeed correct themselves. That tells me that they acknowledge they needed correction and that the man was not the "insane heresiarch" haters insist he was.

As for "assigning malign motives" to you, one only needs to read your choices of out-of-context "quotes" and nasty adjectives to see that a motive of honest exploration of the truth was not the first incentive. Why you and others seem to think that smearing this one man will ever win over others to your cause is anyone's guess. You are preaching to your own choir of fellow haters. Your words have no effect on those who look to Christ instead of men to find the truth.

Dear boatbums. I'm happy to have taught you a new word :)

As for the rest of what you wrote, I can read that he is your hero and so any truthful words about him that are factual you read as a smear; so. the fault lies with you hearing the quotes through your rhetorical hearing aid that is tuned to Luther Worship and the fault does not lie with those who merely quote your hero.

Your description as "haters" those who write the truth about the execrable Heresiarch, Luther, shows flirtation with the standards (such as they are) of the Rap Industry where one is either a hater or a lover but we Christians have a different standard and the violent, hateful, base, vulgar, lying, vow-breaking , drunk illustrated in his actions what sort of "godly" man he was.

http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Leo10/l10exdom.htm

The keynote of his whole movement of Reformation is sounded in the Latin line he wrote on a piece of plaster at a banquet, "where the Princes enter- tained him magnificently and regaled him with the finest Rhenish wine," and where, as Seckendorf tells, "he drank like a true German"

'Testis eram vivus, moriens tua mors ero Papa."

"Living I was your pest; dying, O Pope, I shall be your death."

The merry guests, delighted with his humor, sat down, and Luther "continued to vent his wit in sarcasms against his natural enemies, the pope, the emperor, the monks, and also the devil, whom he did not forget, to the delight of the frivolous and bibulous company." As the boisterous and irreverent crowd rose from the table, a report of the death of Paul. reached them. Luther, delighted at the news, cried out, exultingly, 'This is the fourth Pope I have buried: I shall bury many more of them." He that dwelleth in heaven, however, laughed at the prediction. Luther was taken suddenly ill and in spite of all the attention of his assembled guests in a few hours he was called to the judgment seat of God to render an account of his long and bitter opposition to the Church and its legitimate representative.

Living and dying as a hate-filled, vulgar, fat, violent, drunk may be "godly" to some, but I would think that even a protestant would be a mite embarrassed upon learning the facts about Luther; prolly not though

Dear boatbums. I think highly of the ideas expressed by Luther (apparently sober) in this letter:

Luther before he formally separated himself from obedience to Rome and when he seemed to abhor such a course, declared "I never approved of a schism, nor will I approve of it for all eternity." In a letter written by him in 1519 to the then reigning Pontiff Leo X. and quoted in the History of the Reformation by that partisan Merle D'Aubigne, he says, "That the Roman Church is more honored by God than all others is not to be doubted. St. Peter and St. Paul, forty-six popes, some hundreds of thousands of martyrs, have laid down their lives in its communion, having overcome hell and the world ;so that the eyes of God rest on the Roman Church with special favor. Though nowadays everything is in a wretched state, it is no ground for separating from the Church. On the contrary, the worse things are going, the more should we hold close to her, for it is not by separating from the Church we can make her better. We must not separate from God on account of any work of the devil, nor cease to have fellowship with the children of God who are still abiding in the pale of Rome on account of the multitude of the ungodly. There is no sin, no amount of evil, which should be permitted to dissolve the bond of charity or break the bond of unity of the body. For love can do all things and nothing is difficult to those who are united."

"I don't blame Catholics for hating a man who spoke his mind about the deplorable condition of the Catholic Church in his day."

I do not hate Luther. He did me no harm and is dead and by now judged.

Watching the dialog in this forum it is interesting to observe who is loved because of who they loved and who is loved because of who they hated. It is very telling of the presence of the Holy Spirit in both the historical characters and ourselves.

Peace be with you