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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
What Romans 9 and the rest of the Bible actually teaches is that salvation is by the grace of God

Why did you stop? Paul says “grace through faith”, never does Scripture ever say by grace alone. You can search the Scriptures day and night for ever and ever and you will never find the phrase “grace alone” anywhere in the bible.

But there is a place where one can find the words faith and alone in the same passage.

Jam 2:24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone.

One is not going to be saved unless one is justified before the Father. You see there is grace, deliverance, justification and salvation, in that order. Yes we may currently be delivered out of our ignorance of His truth, but we have yet to enter salvation as in crossing over from corruptible flesh to incorruptible flesh. Being saved from something and actually entering into His salvation are two completely different things.

Yes, Salvation is a free gift so suppose you were given as a gift, say a plane ticket to your favorite vacation destination. Now there is only one catch, the ticket is for a date in the future, say 10 yrs from now. How do you know you will actually get to use it unless you guard it and tend to it so it does not get lost or stolen? This is what salvation through grace is, it is a ticket to a future destination that needs guarding and tending so we do not loose it because on this ticket of salvation is the directions on how to redeem it. We are given this ticket for the future when we said “I do” to His covenant the same way we say ‘I do” to our marriage vows in the flesh. When we do not guard and tend those vows, the marriage breaks up and that is why Yeshua said to the assembly at Philadelphia, “Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown.”

If something can be taken away, then that something is not guaranteed thus the false doctrine of once saved always saved is just another heretical doctrine and teaching of man that has no foundation in God's Word, just as most of them are.

14 posted on 03/29/2013 1:54:43 AM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: patlin

“Why did you stop? Paul says “grace through faith”, never does Scripture ever say by grace alone”


As far as I can tell, you share the same opinion as me on this. Only, for some odd reason, you add works that you yourself confess are utterly irrelevant by sharing my stance. For if salvation is by the grace of God through Faith, faith itself arising from God’s grace, then how can something as minor as food and dietary laws change or add onto the work of God? But you do not follow the logic of your own arguments to their end, intending to put a yoke on people that even the Jews themselves could not maintain.

It’s an insidious and worldly error.

“You see there is grace, deliverance, justification and salvation, in that order.”


It’s predestination, calling, justification, and glorification, in that order:

Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

The predestination from eternity, the calling, which follows predestination, and from calling to justification, occur in time.

The word “Justification” is also simply just another word for salvation.

“Yes, Salvation is a free gift so suppose you were given as a gift, say a plane ticket to your favorite vacation destination. Now there is only one catch, the ticket is for a date in the future, say 10 yrs from now. “


Except it is not a plane ticket 10 years into the future. It is the gift of God that works without the running or willing of man.

Act_13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

These are ordained to eternal life, and therefore they believed. They were not ordained conditionally based on a plane ticket. What God has declared, no one can cast away.

Certainly, we are warned often to check our election, but not that one scripture contradicts another. The election of God is secret and unknown to man. Therefore, we must always be on guard. When I see a Christian who is terrified of losing his salvation, and comes to me asking for help, he is a truly a Christian of Christians, for the damned never worry for such things. Those who fall away, and yet confessed Christ at one point, were never known by Christ to begin with.

Mat 7:22-23 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Notice these people even seem to operate in the gifts of the Spirit, casting out devils and performing miracles. The scripture is clear that He rains His blessings on both the good and evil seeds, yet the evil seeds only grow up to damnation. However, it is not, “I knew you until you fell away,” it is “I never knew you” at all.

John himself supports this view again:

1Jn_2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

They were not “once of us,” and then fell out and became “not of us.” They were always “not of us,” and had to leave to make it manifest that they were not all of us.

The scriptures cannot be broken.

God knows who His sheep are, and none can escape His hand:

Joh 10:27-30 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: (28) And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. (29) My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. (30) I and my Father are one.

Your battle is with the sovereignty of God and the sufficiency of His own will and power. And for that reason you insert things we are not commanded to obey and harp on works. But this is the true error, common with all worldly religions. They all promote works-righteousness in one form or another.


16 posted on 03/29/2013 2:21:41 AM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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