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To: boatbums
Not sure who you mean "they" is...

The Apostles.

... but, without question, Almighty God has ALWAYS commanded "holy men of God" to write his word and they wrote what they were "moved along by the Holy Spirit" to write.

Feel free to cite a single verse where Jesus commanded His Apostles to write a single word. In fact, in Mark 16:15 Jesus commanded His Apostles to preach, not to write... yes, the dreaded spoken testimony. If it was meant to be as you describe it, don't you think a few more than three of the Apostles would have written? Yet, we have only the writings of three Apostles in the Bible.

In one place, St Paul says that he longs to see the Thessalonians personally to build up what is lacking in their faith (1 Thess 3:10)... he didn't write to them to build them up and he didn't assign a reading list. He needed to be there in person to preach to them. In 2 Thess 3:6, St Paul admonishes the Thessalonians to keep away from those who do not follow the traditions he brought. In 2 Thess 2:15, St Paul admonishes the Thessalonians to hold fast to the traditions they were taught whether by word of mouth or by letter. In 1 Cor 11:2, he commends the Corinthians for holding fast to the traditions he brought them.

I think when people say things that de-emphasize the Sacred Scriptures, they do so to place a human organization above the word of God.

Ironically, we are not de-emphasizing Scripture by elevating the Church. Why? Because Scripture elevates the Church... 1 Tim 3:15 but in case I am delayed, I write so that you will know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth.

Why is the Church the pillar and support of the truth? Because Scripture is not self-illuminating (Acts 8:30-31). Individuals interpret Scripture to their own destruction (2 Peter 3:16). Scripture doesn't hold everything (John 20:30 and John 21:25). The Canon of the Bible doesn't even hold everything Scripture records to be Scripture... St Paul references letters not included (1 Cor 5:9-11 and Col 4:16). St Peter resolved the question of the gentiles without reference to Scripture (Acts 15). St Paul admonishes his readers to hold to the Apostolic Tradition he brought, not Scripture (2 Thess 3:6).

Jesus did give authority during His ministry. He gave it to His Apostles; principally among them, St Peter. Recall that Jesus specifically gave St Peter the authority of binding and loosing in Matt 16:19... and not just on Earth but in Heaven as well. Why? Because Christ's Kingdom is One. There is not an Earthly Kingdom and a Heavenly Kingdom separated. We are joined and confess in our Creed the Communion of Saints. By what authority did Christ bestow His Own Authority on St Peter and the Apostles? He is the Son of David and sits on the throne of the everlasting Davidic Kingdom. Hearken back to Isaiah 22:22... here we have the commutation of authority from a deposed Prime Minister to the new one. What is the symbol of this authority? The keys of the House of David that what he opens will not be shut and what he shuts will not be opened. Sounds familiar, doesn't it?

... Scripture. It really is the only OBJECTIVE and infallible authority we have.

And yet the defining characteristic of those who follow this one, objective infallible authority is disunity and division. Each denomination puts forward a pope of their own in the person of Luther, Calvin, the Archbishop of Canterbury, Billy Graham or Joel Osteen who tells them what Scripture really means. Christ knew we needed such an authority so He Himself gave us an anchor of His own choosing. He gave the Church His authority (Matt 18:17).

Sometimes Catholics take heat for naming our churches after saints. Our detractors reference 1 Cor 1:11-13. These criticisms horribly miss the mark, though. We are One Catholic Church. Catholic mean universal. It is in all places and all times. It is the unity of Heaven and Earth. We follow the Deposit of Faith given by Christ in Sacred Tradition for the understanding of Sacred Scripture. It is Christ's Church He promised to build (Matt 16:18).

Not so in the Protestant world. Each denomination is a division and each founds its Gospel on the teaching or school of men. The Lutherans follow Martin Luther, the Calvinists follow John Calvin, the Anglicans follow the Archbishop of Canterbury, etc ad infinitum.

If the Bible was meant to be the sole authority from the beginning you would think Christ could have made more copies available. I mean, if the basis of faith is each person reading his own Bible and memorizing verses, then we didn't actually have a Church until Gutenberg made the copying process faster than your average 100 Catholic monks. Of course, that would have to mean that the first 1,500 years after Pentacost don't count as Church history.

May the God of all wisdom grant you His Grace. Good night.

143 posted on 03/23/2013 7:09:34 PM PDT by pgyanke (Republicans get in trouble when not living up to their principles. Democrats... when they do.)
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To: pgyanke
Acts 1:11
In my former book, Theophilus, I wrote about all that Jesus began to do and to teach until the day he was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen. After his suffering, he presented himself to them and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God. On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”

Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?”

He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.

They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”

Sounds like whatever needed to be preserved in sacred Scripture, HAS been preserved in sacred Scripture.

If your church teaches anything that contradicts Scripture, then it is NOT a pillar and support of the truth. Being a pillar and support of the truth does not mean it has carte blanche to INVENT the truth - something the Roman Catholic Church has done repeatedly, though they certainly aren't alone in that error. Without the Scriptures, we would have NO assurance about what is or is not the truth. Human beings are notorious for playing power games and history is rife with it in the "church". When Scripture talks about the church, it doesn't mean one, institution that calls itself "THE" church, but it is the body of Christ, the bride of Christ composed of ALL believers from every part of the world at all times AND not even one member is unsaved. You certainly can't say that about the RCC, can you? No church can say that, either. So, no matter who someone follows or doesn't follow, the Scriptures ARE the record of Christ's teachings on earth and the further revelation he gave after through the Holy Spirit.

It is a strawman to pretend that, because some people "interpret" Scripture incorrectly, it means Scripture is insufficient. Sure, the church is supposed to be where the truth is found and taught, but it takes far more than an insistence of being the church. We were given the Scriptures so that we could KNOW what the truth is and God preserved it for us so that anyone who claims to be teaching God's truth can be confirmed by Scripture. God said through the prophet Isaiah:

To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. (Isa. 8:20)

And Paul stated:

If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. (I Cor. 14:7)

The Apostle John said:

Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning. (I John 2:7)

To imply that, since Jesus never "commanded His Apostles to write a single word", that it means the written word has no power or purpose or that the Apostles who God used to write the New Testament were not doing so under the command of God, is ridiculous. What do you think the history of the OLD Testament's example meant to them? Unto the Jews were given the "oracles of God", Paul said, but that didn't guarantee that they could preserve the truth of God without those oracles (writings). No, we have the sacred writings for a SPECIFIC reason, and that is so that we may know the truths God has revealed. NO church, no matter its purported history, can be in authority over God's word.

You mentioned Paul's admonition to the Thessalonians to follow his "traditions" and to stay away from those who don't, yet in that very same chapter he said:

And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother. (II Thess. 3:14,15)

Sounds to me like there was authority in the WRITTEN word. Have a blessed Lord's day.

146 posted on 03/23/2013 8:07:51 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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