Posted on 03/10/2013 11:58:35 AM PDT by patlin
There has been a widespread and growing 'deadly cancer' in the Christian church as of late and that 'cancer' is the pulpits profusely proclaiming that anyone who wishes to do 'JUST AS' Jesus did and to walk in the same manner as Jesus did, those who choose this path have fallen out of grace and are claimed to have joined a cult. So is this true?
In his March 5, 2013, Mike Hoggard vehemently shouted at the top of his lungs during his radio broadcast that the 4th Commandment of God was nailed to the cross. Now mind you, this is the ONE Commandment of God that contains the 'sign/mark" of His Covenant with all mankind that dates back to the seventh day of creation. So could the Jesus that Hoggard preaches be the true Messiah that never spoke against or did anything in disobedience to God the Father? I would say without a doubt, NO, Mike Hoggard is not proclaiming the true Messiah that Moses and the Prophets wrote about but a different messiah and a different gospel and here is why.
Deu 13:1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, 2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; 3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.
Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
Isa 56:1 Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed. 2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil. 3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people, ...6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; 7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people. 8 The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him. ... 10 His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber. 11 Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.
Mike Hoggard claims to be a watchman but teaches that His seventh day Sabbath is not for all mankind and those that claim it is are heretics and members of some cult. So what else do the Prophets have to say of His Sabbath as being valid for ALL mankind?
Eze 20:11 And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them (Rm 10:5). 12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.1 between them and Me, to know that I am יהוה who sets them apart. Footnote: 1See Ex. 31:13-17.
Eze 20:23 I lifted up mine hand unto them also in the wilderness, that I would scatter them among the heathen, and disperse them through the countries; 24 Because they had not executed my judgments, but had despised my statutes, and had polluted my sabbaths, and their eyes were after their fathers' idols. 25 Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live1. Footnote: 1Ps. 81:12, Isa. 30:28, Acts 7:42, Rom. 1:24-28, 2 Thess. 2:11.
Isa 66:19 "And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles. ... 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
So we see that it was NOT prophesied that the Sabbath would be nailed to anything, but rather it will be restored in all its glory as it was in the beginning. So did Jesus of Nazareth speak to the continuation of the Father's perpetual and everlasting seventh day Sabbath for all mankind? Why yes Jesus of Nazareth certainly did.
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, "Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. ... 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 2 And because iniquity (lawlessness / transgression against the Law of God) shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. ... 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the SABBATH DAY: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."
So as this false prophet Mike Hoggard claims that his Jesus nailed the 4th Commandment to the cross and that we no longer are bound by this burdensome law, but as we can see, the true Jesus of Nazareth of the King James bible tells us just the opposite of what false prophet Mike Hoggard prophesies and that the true Jesus will be expecting us to keep and honor the 4th Commandment because as a disciple, one who imitates and emulates the Master, if one is a true disciple of Jesus, then one will joyfully do as Jesus did and not call ANY command of the Father burdensome.
Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
1Jn 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous (burdensome).
Rom 10:5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them (Ez 20:11). 6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:) 7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) 8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Deu 30:10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. 11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden (too hard, too burdensome) from thee, neither is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
interestingly enough, Hoggard did quote from Paul about making void the Law of God, but then in the same breath he denied that which he just spoke while also ignoring the fact that Paull also taught us that we are to 'establish' the Law of God by doing it through faith just as Abraham 'established' the Law of God by doing it through faith.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
1Jn 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. 4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
We are sons and daughters of God through the begotten Son of God and therefore, as He did, we are to do likewise so that through the Son, we also can be transformed into the likeness of the Father.
2Co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
Therefore, according to Scripture Mike Hoggard is a LIAR and a FALSE PROPHET!
1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. 3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
Now I implore the readers to remember, these are NOT my words or accusations, these are the words and accusations of God the Father and His only begotten Son that Hoggard claims to represent yet in the same breath Hoggard denies both the Father and the Son. Therefore, in denying that the WHOLE Word of God, from Genesis to Revelation is for ALL mankind, Hoggard is denying the very existence of the authority of God the Father and His only begotten Son and creating his own authority upon the earth with a new Gospel message of lawlessness towards God the Father that the only begotten Son of God never taught or preached.
Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
quick correction:
See Acts 3:17-26 which is taken directly from Dt 18:15-22, Acts 7:37-39, Rm 3:1-2 & Heb 3:7-4:13
You cannot be saying that the books after John are not the Word of God, you have cited several. I too believe salvation is possible for lovers of God, given the old testament only.
David says God’s law is wonderful, but Jeremiah says a better covenant awaits.
Hebrews is full of arguments of Jesus being the better way.
Clean the Greece from my eyes...hah that was funny. Ruling with a rod of Iron is a coercive justice. There is no Justice without mercy to alloy it, but justice must be dispensed as necessary or there is no true justice. For a thousand years, Christ will rule on the Earth after that, Satan will be loosed to deceive the nations again..”for a little season”.
Hebrews 12 describes the curse of Mount Sinai where there is gloom and smoke and destruction for those who have not received the Salvation of Jesus Christ, for those who have...there are the Joys of Mount Zion. I have read the prophets and I read the covenant made between Noah and God symbolized by the placement of the rain bow in the sky. God certainly is steadfast about keeping his promises and certainly pronounces future judgments upon Satan and those men who are unrepentant! The Noachide teachers certainly depict God as being one of unyielding Marble who busily keep dusting and polishing his set in stone, unyielding ordinances and fixed pronouncements.
The Christ I believe in and know (at least only as much as he has given me faith to believe) is the God in Flesh who openly marveled (displaying his humanity) at the faith of the Centurian and gentile while in his authority as HOLY GOD granted the centurion’s request for healing of his servant.
Consider why God made ordinances and covenants? Were they not mostly for man’s benefit? God told men to be fruitful and multiply and that he would never again flood the Earth with water. God covenanted with Abraham and promised him a son, from whom’s descendants would arise the living Christ! God gave the Mosaic code that promised blessings for those who adhered to it and curses for those who did not. Yet men could not live by them and the prophets including Moses knew that they could not and knew that an even greater covenant, one that could be inscribed into men’s hearts of flesh instead of tablets of stone, was needed. You might think the Ark was the place where the Shekinah glory of God rested and you would be right. The ark was also a promise, not just of the coming Christ who lived among men, but also a promise of our individual regeneration where the Spirit Of God resides in each of us.
Even having a vast knowledge of all the laws of God, and even having the willingness to try to keep them isn’t enough to save us. If we never again broke another law of God, that would not save us. Jesus Christ is the only one that can save us, and only by the Spirit can we learn how to apply his laws correctly with an eye fixed towards faith hope and above all charity! And when we fail, he is willing to forgive us as we repent!
One can only begin to grasp the laws of God by understanding his two greatest laws....Loving him with everything we have within us to do so and then loving others as we love our selves.
The little secret that I think mechanistic teachers of the law forget is that when one endeavors, by the power of the Spirit, to live by the two greatest commandments...all the other laws we’re supposed to live by (and by what proportions and sequences of applications as guided by the Spirit with Charity and Wisdom) will naturally fall into place!
The two greatest commandments are that we are to love God with everything we are and have...that is the vertical aspect of the cross and then we are to love our neighbor as we love our selves....that is the horizontal aspect of the cross. For on those two laws hangs every law, every covenant, and every jot and tittle ever uttered by the prophets!
Did not Christ say we are to take up our individual crosses and follow him? In loving obedience to the Father Christ died for us so that the message of the Father’s love for all men could be made manifest. He wanted men to avoid the great disasters of spiritual mount Sinai as depicted in Hebrews 12 and instead, enjoy the blessings of Mount Zion...also in Hebrews 12.
It is ironic really, you mentioning Hebrews 12, because as I’ve read your postings in this thread, you advocate positions that would again lock men back into the fearful orbit of Mount Sinai instead of having men look onward to the summits of Mount Zion.
Coming to Mount Zion; that is what the cross and the resurrection have done for those who believe in the living God in Flesh...Yeshua!
23 For I see that you are full of bitterness and captive to sin.”
24 Then Simon answered, “Pray to the Lord for me so that nothing you have said may happen to me.”
You missed verses 23 and 24. Apparently Simon was cut enough in his heart that he responded with a request for prayer. Interesting though that he was not struck down dead the way Annanias and Sapphira were when they lied to Peter and the congregation and the Holy Spirit regarding the size of their money gift. I conclude that God in his grace saw some worth in keeping Simon around!
>> “Jesus, being resurrected, met with the faithful on that Sunday...” <<
.
That is a deliberate mistranslation!
The Hebrew original said not “sunday” but “the first of the weeks,” which was a Havdalah convocation that always occured when the first day began, which was what we pagan fools call “saturday night.”
Nice try!
Yeshua’s sheep never met on “sunday.”
First: Thank you for the compliment for my nice try.
Second: The mistranslation you decry is just my understanding of the gospel accounts from various english bibles and commentaries. I may be a dupe, but I’m not a deliberate deceiver.
Third: I understood the NT was written in Greek. Even so, if the Havdalah ( I looked it up) marks the end of the sabbath, Behold, comes Sunday.
Fourth: If by Yeshua you mean Jesus Christ, you cannot be saying He deliberately avoided meeting on Sunday.
Fifth: Being a pagan can be cured.
Sixth: What is the radius of a 90 degree curve whose tangent length is 25 feet?
Thank you for your response and I was thinking that Levi held no property and was not considered as part of the ten Northern tribes. had a senior moment...thanx
clear the Greece out of your eyes...PLEASE!!! That is the most creative funny one liner that sums this whole mess up I have ever heard and I have been in this argument over 25 years. GOOD ONE!
clear the Greece out of your eyes...PLEASE!!! That is the most creative funny one liner that sums this whole mess up I have ever heard and I have been in this argument over 25 years. GOOD ONE!
Actually he went to work on Sunday...remember he was a carpenter’s son.
Actually he went to work on Sunday...remember he was a carpenter’s son.
Sunday is a pagan day of the week that begins at midnight.
Havdalah happens on what the pagans call saturday evening.
The gospels were written in Hebrew and later translated into other languages. The disciples didn’t know any language but Hebrew, and Hebrew was the dominant language in the region in which Yeshua’s ministry occured.
Yeshua is his name, Not Jesus. He is the Messiah, not the Cristos, which was a mythical member of the Greek pantheon. To most this may seem irrelevent, but he did demand to be called by his own name. Sunday was a regular work day for Yeshua’s folowers, that is why Paul told his congregations to gather their offerings on sunday, it was forbidden to deal with money on the sabbath.
Your radius, if you’re talking about the external tangent, is also 25. (so what?)
Jesus did away with the sabbath as a ceremonial requirement as a commandment. All days are holy in Him. The RCC and the Judaizers both seem to believe one can overcome (at least some)of their spiritual shortcomings by following rules God never intended man to successfully follow.
I admit to much ignorance on this issue and I apologize for taking it as lightly as I did.
I’ll look at some previous threads to get a better understanding.
Thanks patlin, LadyL for your encouragements... I thought originally I might use 'Rome (rose) colored glasses', but i didn't know if folks would get it...
LOL, just a heads up, I'm going to lift that one from ya! Thanks for the ‘funny’.
NP. Unless otherwise noted, my work is always considered to be 'open source', so lifting it is an impossibility.
But, more importantly, Something just hit me tonight like a 2x4 to the back of the head:
Who gets to 'spin' the Holy Word? I mean who does Christianity rely on for interpretive text?
Latin/Rome (Beast power)
Greek (Beast Power)
Aramaic (The Hebrews' ancient enemies, and maybe Assyria/Babylon (Beast Power))
Is there a trend here?
>> “Jesus did away with the sabbath as a ceremonial requirement as a commandment.” <<
.
No he did not!
He did the opposite, he reaffirmed it.
There are no “judaizers.” Yeshua came to fulfill his promises, not to revoke them.
My point was that the 'rod of iron' is judicial, not militaristic. But all the same, the perfect justice of YWHW is coercive? That seems to go against the evidence of the last 6000 years. When my sons were young, I sometimes had to treat them in a coercive fashion, in order to teach them - But now they are men, and they understand. I don't have to threaten anymore.
God certainly is steadfast about keeping his promises and certainly pronounces future judgments upon Satan and those men who are unrepentant! The Noachide teachers certainly depict God as being one of unyielding Marble who busily keep dusting and polishing his set in stone, unyielding ordinances and fixed pronouncements.
The Christ I believe in and know (at least only as much as he has given me faith to believe) is the God in Flesh who openly marveled (displaying his humanity) at the faith of the Centurian and gentile while in his authority as HOLY GOD granted the centurion’s request for healing of his servant.
Soooo... The two are different? Is that your point?
Consider why God made ordinances and covenants? Were they not mostly for man’s benefit? God told men to be fruitful and multiply and that he would never again flood the Earth with water. God covenanted with Abraham and promised him a son, from whom’s descendants would arise the living Christ! God gave the Mosaic code that promised blessings for those who adhered to it and curses for those who did not. Yet men could not live by them and the prophets including Moses knew that they could not and knew that an even greater covenant, one that could be inscribed into men’s hearts of flesh instead of tablets of stone, was needed.
So the Torah, which YHWH says is good, eternal, and not grievous, cannot be kept? What of Yeshua commanding us to do and keep the Torah? What of the prophets who say explicitly that the Law will go forth from Jerusalem and the whole world will do it?
What is sin, except the transgression of the Torah? What is wickedness except the twisting of the Torah? What is lawlessness, but an absence of the law? Take away the Torah, and one takes away the very definition of right and wrong.
And finally, understand the structure of this: If Yeshua caused the Torah to be null and void (in one tiny way, not to mention the whole thing), then He cannot be Messiah. That is the penultimate logic trap against those who would believe as you do. And it is wholly insurmountable!
Don't believe me. My conversation with you has left me with the belief that you have a great capacity toward logic and reason - Test the above upon the whole Word, honestly and without preconceived notions, and you will inescapably arrive at the very same conclusion. Sola scriptura - Take it all the way.
Even having a vast knowledge of all the laws of God, and even having the willingness to try to keep them isn’t enough to save us. If we never again broke another law of God, that would not save us.
Who said it would? That is not it's purpose.
Jesus Christ is the only one that can save us, and only by the Spirit can we learn how to apply his laws correctly with an eye fixed towards faith hope and above all charity! And when we fail, he is willing to forgive us as we repent!
TRUE. Apply His laws then. Follow His example. Really. If you do, you must needfully end up here.
One can only begin to grasp the laws of God by understanding his two greatest laws....Loving him with everything we have within us to do so and then loving others as we love our selves.
How then, do you know you love YHWH? The Bible teaches us throughout: By walking in his commandments - The Torah.
The little secret that I think mechanistic teachers of the law forget is that when one endeavors, by the power of the Spirit, to live by the two greatest commandments...all the other laws we’re supposed to live by (and by what proportions and sequences of applications as guided by the Spirit with Charity and Wisdom) will naturally fall into place!
Indeed. That is exactly why I keep the Sabbath. That is why I am endeavoring to understand and keep His Holy Days, and not the pagan holidays and sabbath of the Roman church. That is why I am trying to tear down the Talmudic traditions that surround the law, in order to find it out in it's truth. And that is why I have thrown off the Roman and Greek traditions of Christianity to find the truth of Yeshua too. Reason and love dictate that I do so. And it has been a remarkable journey. The more I understand, the more I love YHWH for showing it to me.
Understand: In order for Yeshua to be the perfect sacrifice without spot or blemish, He necessarily had to have kept the law perfectly. That intrinsically requires that He cannot have changed the law at all. And as the 'Great Prophet who is to come', He cannot have led the people away from the law, as such a one would be a false prophet by definition.
Your statement declares that he did change the law. If that is true, then he cannot be the Messiah.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.