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To: metmom; presently no screen name; Dutchboy88

There are two extremes here, one being that all the sign gifts have ceased, and while not disallowing that God can heal, it does not see that as provided for in the atonement, and does not wait in faith for deliverance and healing according to God’s will and timing.

“And it came to pass on a certain day, as he was teaching, that there were Pharisees and doctors of the law sitting by, which were come out of every town of Galilee, and Judæa, and Jerusalem: and the power of the Lord was present to heal them. “ (Luke 5:17)

O the other side are those who teach that it is not God’s will that any Christian should suffer and that lack of deliverance or healing, or remaining in need after prayer, is always due to lack of faith, even to the point of claiming persecuted Christians remain in suffering due to lack of faith, and tend to slight members of their church who do not see healing, as they challenges their theology. (And yet the preachers of it typically example living more by entreaties for money than by Biblical faith.)

But the Bible is a book of balance, and it is obvious both that God heals and delivers by faith, and also calls us to endure sufferings by faith, even if it continues till death.

There is a very important word regarding this in the Hebrew “hall of faith, “ that being “others:”

“Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens. Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

And OTHERS had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment: They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth. And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: “ (Hebrews 11:33-39)

A lack of obedience and faith can indeed be blamed for not being delivered and lack of victory or healing or being in need,

“Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel. “ (Psalms 78:41)

“And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled. “ (2 Corinthians 10:6)

Yet God can allow afflictions and trials of long continuance, and thus even the apostle Paul was not given deliverance from his thorn in the flesh, and which was not persecution.

“And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ’s sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong. “ (2 Corinthians 12:7-10)

Thus Paul remained afflicted and rejoiced in having necessities, as that worked to having real victory. It is my observation that believers who see great manifestations of God’s providence and deliverance, healing, have also latter experienced financial needs, etc, or prolonged sickness, sometimes unto death, even though they lived by the same faith and obedience as before.

David Wilkerson suffered from diverticulitis and recurrent shingles if i recall. I personally know of a holy couple who were instruments of healing for others, including a Christian brother or mine, yet he recently died after a prolonged (years) of debilitating dementia and others problems, though i am sure they continued to believed in Divine healing and waited for it. But i am sure God will reward the wife for her selfless constant care and suffering in so doing during those years, which was a trial of faith.

For God has a greater priority than our health and prosperity, that being conformity to Christ and rewarding us, and which requires faith both for deliverance, and to endure trials without losing faith, even if it unto death, which is the final deliverance for the saints.

“And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. “ (Romans 8:17)

“If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: “ (2 Timothy 2:12)

Thus we should continue to believe for deliverance, and endure by faith till it comes, even if it is by death of this “vile” body.


48 posted on 03/05/2013 6:37:22 AM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: daniel1212; presently no screen name; Dutchboy88; boatbums; CynicalBear; smvoice

A preacher I’ve heard gave the example of two women who went for prayer for healing from cancer. One was healed, the other not.

So he asked, who had the greater faith? The one who was healed or the one who wasn’t but still loved and followed Jesus, not having received from Him what she asked for?

God is not a sugar daddy, nor is healing a barometer of the amount of faith one has.

Again, faith the size of a mustard seed is enough to move mountains according to Jesus. Because it’s not the size of the faith that makes it effective, but rather the size of the God we have the faith in.

Thanks daniel, for that post. Excellent as usual.


49 posted on 03/05/2013 6:54:34 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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