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To: HarleyD; Alamo-Girl; boatbums; metmom; CynicalBear; P-Marlowe; xzins; marron; stfassisi
It is not true that "no one can define 'free will'." My favorite dictionary is the Oxford Dictionary of the English Language, and it gives this definition:

Free Will: noun
the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one’s own discretion.

Seems pretty clear and straightforward to me.

I do not believe that the Stanford Encyclopedia ever said "we really don't know what free will means." Certainly the writer of this entry was aware of Augustine.

I'm having difficulty following you, dear brother HarleyD. On the one hand, you seem to reject the idea of free will out of hand. Then on the other, you appear to agree with Augustine's definition of it: "He foreknew who would be holy and immaculate by the choice of free will, and on that account elected them before the foundation of the world in that same foreknowledge of His in which He foreknew that they would be such."

I have reason to believe the Stanford article illuminates Augustine's thinking on this subject: "omnipotent God's cooperative activity can be (explanatorily) prior to a human choice and yet the outcome of that choice [can] be settled only by the choice itself."

You say that nowhere in Holy Scripture can we find the words "free will." Well jeepers, how can we understand the fall of Adam other than as a consequence of his free choice, his decision to disobey God? Or do you hold that God "programmed" Adam to disobey Him? Then it seems we are the position of having to say that Adam was simply God's pawn, being moved about on some divine chess board, not a creature made in His image, possessing reason and free will.

The Holman Bible Dictionary has an entry for "free will offering" — i.e., "free will" here used in its adjectival form: Holman defines it as "a gift given at the impulse of the giver.... The distinctive mark of the free will offering was the 'stirred hearts' and 'willing spirits' of the givers...."[See Exodus 35:29, Exodus 36:3-7, Deuteronomy 16:10, I Corinthians 16: 1–2.]

To hear the way some people speak of "sola scriptura," sometimes I get the impression that such folks believe it is "sola scriptura" that saves, and not Jesus Christ. That is, if we have the "correct" doctrine, then and only then can we be saved. In short, it's all about "what you know" and not about "how you live."

Finally, why would God bother to give us His revelation in the Holy Scriptures if it's being addressed to creatures who are not free either to accept or reject it? I don't believe God was "writing for His own amusement."

Sigh.... I grant you, dear brother, this is a very deep subject. Suffice it for now to say that the Creation is partly "determined" and partly "free," roughly corresponding to what my dear sister Alamo-Girl indicated in distinguishing God's creative will and His permissive will.

If there is no free will in the Bible, then why does it say that there is no greater rejoicing in Heaven than when a sinner has a change of heart (i.e., is converted and reconciled to, "convicted" in Christ)? If there is no free will in the Bible, then what are we to make of the Parable of the Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32)?

Well enuf for now. Thank you heartily, dear brother HarleyD, for sharing your views with us!

918 posted on 02/04/2013 12:08:50 PM PST by betty boop (We are led to believe a lie when we see with, and not through the eye. — William Blake)
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To: betty boop
That is, if we have the "correct" doctrine, then and only then can we be saved. In short, it's all about "what you know" and not about "how you live."

If I may, IMO, it's neither. It's WHO you know.

When I first got saved, someone made the comment to me that I need to be careful not to have faith in my faith but faith in Jesus. It's not faith in my faith that saves, but faith in Jesus, a person who saves.

It was an interesting distinction for a new believer to consider, but I got the point he was making.

Faith put in the wrong object (for lack of a better term) is not going to save anyone.

921 posted on 02/04/2013 12:24:57 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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