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To: stfassisi; CynicalBear; betty boop; metmom
A very interesting post by Aquinas. But I would suggest looking more closely at what he is saying:

I find this a remarkable statement. Why would man hinder himself from grace? If one is face with a choice between heaven and hell, unfetter by everything around him so that he is capable of making a rational decision between going the heaven or going to hell, then why would they choose hell? Personally, I don't know of anyone who sat down and "rationally" decided one way or the other. And I would say this includes Adam. Do you believe Adam made a rational decision? This certainly doesn't fit into the gospel experience.

As far as Aquainas's text (Job 21:14), please not the context of Job's speech:

These are the wicked. Those people who have no desire to serve God. They do not answer the external call of God so there is no internal call. I believe Aquinas completely misread this section of Job. I would suggest comparing against Paul's writings:

God gives us this answer to Job's question many years later. He chooses (yes chooses) that what is low and despised to make His riches known. So we shouldn't get a big head.

I would have liked to have heard an explaination from Aquinas on 1 Cor 1:28. Had he been an Augustinian and not a Dominican he might have done better. Perhaps it was his nickname "Dumb Ox" that stigmatized him. :O)

593 posted on 01/31/2013 5:31:41 PM PST by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD; stfassisi; betty boop; metmom
>>If one is face with a choice between heaven and hell, unfetter by everything around him so that he is capable of making a rational decision between going the heaven or going to hell, then why would they choose hell?<<

Why would a married pastor have sexual relations with a member of his church? Why would a priest molest a small boy? It’s called “choice”, what some would call “free will”, others would call “permissive will”. It seems to be something that Calvinists deny.

595 posted on 01/31/2013 6:03:33 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: HarleyD; stfassisi; CynicalBear; betty boop
Why would man hinder himself from grace? If one is face with a choice between heaven and hell, unfetter by everything around him so that he is capable of making a rational decision between going the heaven or going to hell, then why would they choose hell? Personally, I don't know of anyone who sat down and "rationally" decided one way or the other.

If people were staring hell in the face as it were, I doubt anyone would choose it. But people have been convinced or have convinced themselves that not only is hell not real, but for the most part, that the supernatural isn't real. Or at least God. Many still believe in magic and forces, etc.

People have been deceived about what they're really rejecting and accepting, and choosing.

That's why they resist grace, because they don't really realize the full consequences of their decision.

Rationalizing has nothing to do with it anyway.

596 posted on 01/31/2013 6:22:34 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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