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To: Pope Pius XII
The pope himself has posted a rebuttal? Interesting.

If you wish to dialogue about these passages I can take only a few a time. But, here goes...

"Answer me this. If man doesn’t have free will then what are we say about these passages:

Luke 10:16

If you would read this passage directly, that is without predjudice, you would notice that it is simply a statement of fact (much like John 3:16). It is not an offer, nor is it claiming man is free from God's management. Jesus is simply saying that if certain folks cannot/will not hear the seventy, they are rejecting Jesus.

It is entirely unwarranted for you to conclude, "Therefore man is completely free to choose or reject Jesus based on this passage." It simply does not say this.

The very same thing occurs in Jeremiah, Joshua, Isaiah, and all the other prophets. Just because God says, "Now choose to follow me!", does not mean they can. Look at Acts 15:6ff where Peter makes it crystal clear that no Jew had ever followed the Law, nor had they been able to. We need, he says, grace to bring us into fellowship with God.

"IS MAN BASICALLY EVIL?"

"WHERE THE BIBLE SAYS NO:

"Gen 1:26,31"

My FRiend, if all was "good" in the sense that you mean, then Satan was a regular, righteous being since he was in creation along with man. At the moment of creation of the physical universe, there was at least one-third of all angelic beings in revolt against God with Lucifer (Satan) leading the charge. Man was likely created with a lustful, evil nature just waiting to display his tendencies for rebellion in league with Satan. Notice James 1 says that it is lust which gives birth to sin, and sin, death.

The creation was "good" because it was the perfect setting to display God's mercy being poured out on an undeserving mankind with the ultimate example being His Son's willing sacrifice. Everything was set to display grace.

Job? There are absolutely no remarks about Job having been born righteous or having a righteousness attributed to him, alone. That he followed God as an adult gives no information about God's work on him up to that point. And, please read just how sinful Job was during his accusations of God. God roared from the skies about Job's arrogance and ignorance. Job slaps his hand over his mouth when he realizes his error (40:4). Job may have been the best guy in the world, but he was evil by nature and worthy of death like all others. Otherwise, are you saying some people deserve heaven without any input from God? Now that is heresy (check Pelagius).

And, your treatment of Rom. 3 is self-contradictory. Either all men need redemption, or not all men are evil. You cannot have it both ways. If all men need redemption, then there are no men who are simply "prone" to evil...all must be evil and needing redemption. If you hold that some, while prone, are not actually evil, then that too is heresy. The need for redemption comes from being evil.

This is the condemnation laid at all men's feet in Rom. 3. Read it again. Paul is saying all men are evil.

"There is none righteous, not even one; there is none who understands, there is none who seeks for God; All have turned aside, together they have become useless; there is none who does good, there is not even one." and so on.

But, the original point your "pope" made was that all men seek God, even the athiest. This, along with most of your claims, is untrue according to the Scriptures. More to come.

25 posted on 01/16/2013 3:13:23 PM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: Dutchboy88

“My FRiend, if all was ‘good’ in the sense that you mean, then Satan was a regular, righteous being since he was in creation along with man.”

You’re putting words in my mouth. I never said anything about Satan being good.


37 posted on 01/17/2013 12:09:05 PM PST by Pope Pius XII (There's no such thing as divorce)
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To: Dutchboy88

Another thing too Dutchboy88,

Man can resist grace. He cannot fully accept grace on his own power. Man is free to reject God. Only with help can he turn toward God. Therefore, man’s freedom is limited with and by grace, man can love God. He can also resist grace. The seed heresy of Calvinism is irresistible grace. We were created by Love and for Love.


39 posted on 01/17/2013 12:48:41 PM PST by Pope Pius XII (There's no such thing as divorce)
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