[CynicalBear]

>>But beware-this still requires reading.<<

No need to get snippy. I don’t mind reading son but my point has been that contentions such as the Calvinists are now bringing to the table that they think are important “for salvation” are not. Like I tell the Catholics, Calvinists can surround themselves with their quasi Pharisaical tomes of rules but Jesus made it rather simple.

>>I understand these days everyone is into MacTheology. Sure just "believe on the Lord" and that's all it takes.<<

Mactheology you say! I surely hope I am reading into that “sure” comment and that you didn’t mean to belittle the “believe on the Lord” quote. Is that how you would have reacted had you been the jailor when Paul said those words also? I’m starting to get a picture here and it ain’t good.

>>We, after all, spend about 10 minutes a week listening to the pastor quote something from scripture. That should be enough.<<

Now there’s a statement that indicates a total lack of understanding of how God draws a believer to Himself and what happens to a persons heart upon truly accepting Christ as savior. It’s what I observed in most of the churches I have attended that were cold. Just warm a hard bench on Sunday, recite those tomes of “confessions” either from rote memory or notes and one is branded saved. No heart change but certainly a legalistic requirement from that point to study the intricacies and rules so one can follow the letter of the law. OH, and don’t forget to wear your Sunday best because it would be dishonorable to show up in sac cloth and ashes.

>>Sorry but I don't want to just want to be saved.<<

Wait a minute. Don’t change the subject now. We were talking about what was needed FOR salvation. It has been the contention of the Calvinists here that all those long confessions were required for salvation. Which is it? Are they required or not?

[HarleyD]

No need to get snippy....Calvinists can surround themselves with their quasi Pharisaical tomes of rules but Jesus made it rather simple.

I don't mean to sound (er, write) snippily. The Westminster Confession, as well as the London Baptist Confession, are what Protestants are all about. All they entail are certain biblical truths researched by Protestant founders along with the scriptural references to support the truth. They are things we KNOW about God from the scriptures. There are no rules like eating fish on Fridays.

It’s what I observed in most of the churches I have attended that were cold. Just warm a hard bench on Sunday, recite those tomes of “confessions” either from rote memory or notes and one is branded saved. No heart change but certainly a legalistic requirement from that point to study the intricacies and rules so one can follow the letter of the law. OH, and don’t forget to wear your Sunday best because it would be dishonorable to show up in sac cloth and ashes.

We're not talking about studying rules. We're talking about studying scripture. I see a lot of people throwing out the same 10% of scriptures over and over yet they don't want to deal with the other 90%.

I've attended many churches in my life from the very "stuffy" to the very unorthodox. You know what, God is in the presence of all of them. We are not to judge how others worship. It may not be for us but if it helps others to draw closer to God then that's fine. We don't go to church to be entertained but to confess our sins and worship God.

But it isn't the style of singing or whether we wear a tie or shorts that matter. What matters is whether the scriptures are being taught correctly. We are COMMANDED by God to RIGHTFULLY handle the word of truth. (2 Tim 2:15) And if people think that God does not take this seriously then they need to read Job:

Job 42:7-8 After the LORD had spoken these words to Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite: "My anger burns against you and against your two friends, for you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has. Now therefore take seven bulls and seven rams and go to my servant Job and offer up a burnt offering for yourselves. And my servant Job shall pray for you, for I will accept his prayer not to deal with you according to your folly. For you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has."

...It has been the contention of the Calvinists here that all those long confessions were required for salvation.

Can you please show me where on earth you got that? Please provide me with the post references. There is no such thing.

It's a little bit disconcerting of people out here-good healthy and faithful Protestants, those who I have a lot of respect for btw-who make these types of claims. I've seen posts on this thread saying I'm flip-flopping on this or that without the slightest evidence. They throw out ideas that have no support in scripture (try finding one scripture where it states man has "free will"). When asked to define what they mean they cannot or it's so convoluted that people scratch their heads. When I've pointed out the idea of Hell among "Free Will" thinkers cannot be supported, they offer no references, no scriptures, and no theological support. What scarier, when I pointed out that the free will concept on hell involves universalism or purgatory, people here just seems to be "Ho-Hum". Yet they make the claim that Calvinists are too legalistic.

No, Reformers aren't legalistic. They're simply aghast at those who don't understand the tenants of the Protestant faith set down by our Protestant forefathers. What they're really embrassing is Catholicism or worst.