[boatbums]

Free will is not mentioned. The word is willing or volunteering. And it's not used in the salvation experience. So those are poor examples and my assertion is not false. What you failed to respond to was how "free will" is used in salvation. Are you willing to say man comes to God on his own volition? Are you willing to say the dictionary is wrong? That is what we've heard.

"Free will" WAS the term used by some of the Bible versions for the two different Greek words. I don't see the point of arguing over it nor the need to quibble about whether or not the verses were "poor examples". My point is simply that the term IS used in Scripture. If people can give voluntarily, if they can come and go of their own volition, if we are admonished to make choices for good, why can it not also be, to a point, how we respond to God's grace? As to how I view free will WRT salvation, I did not fail to respond at all. Perhaps you should read my response again.

Protestants need to read and understand their confessions. Don't blame me if you don't like being a Protestant. I'll stick with the confessions.

Why would I blame you for what I believe? I was born and raised in a religious system that went by catechisms and councils to come to decisions about what they believe at any given century. There was within my heart a stirring that convinced me there was something more, something I wasn't being told about, something I was missing. That stirring, of course, was the Holy Spirit and, at sixteen years old, I understood the gospel from reading John 10:27-30. I received Jesus Christ as my savior and I was baptized into a Southern Baptist Church. Several years later, God called me to go to a Bible College because I wanted to not only know what I believed but why I believed it. I crammed four years into five and a half and graduated with a B.A. in Theology/Biblical Education. So this "Protestant" isn't dumb about the faith and there is an OCEAN of difference between what I know and believe from what I once did as a Catholic.

What went on on this thread is incredibly sad to me. Over a doctrine that NO BODY can come down definitively on one side of or another, enmity and discord was spread for DAYS and hard feelings and anger was sown. Accusations were hurled and heels dug in and I could picture the devil yukking it up over it all. It was embarrassing! I purposely chose to mostly stay out and my contribution was to defend the doctrine of sola Scriptura against those who would AND will blame it for why we non-Catholics seem to be at such crossroads. I'll not get in the boxing ring over a doctrine that Scripture is not clear cut on. I'm sorry if that is unacceptable to you.

[HarleyD]

"Free will" WAS the term used by some of the Bible versions for the two different Greek words. I don't see the point of arguing over it nor the need to quibble about whether or not the verses were "poor examples". My point is simply that the term IS used in Scripture. If people can give voluntarily, if they can come and go of their own volition,

No, I don't know of any (legitimate) Bible versions that uses "free will". Just to make certain I checked. The reason I'm "quibbling" over this is simply because the term "free will" is directly linked to the Pelagius heresy by Augustine. Please note what he writes:

"Therefore," says the Pelagian, "He foreknew who would be holy and immaculate by the choice of free will, and on that account elected them before the foundation of the world

WHAT IS THE VIEW OF THE PELAGIANS, AND WHAT OF THE SEMI-PELAGIANS, CONCERNING PREDESTINATION. But these brethren of ours, about whom and on whose behalf we are now discoursing, say, perhaps, that the Pelagians are refuted by this apostolical testimony in which it is said that we are chosen in Christ and predestinated before the foundation of the world, in order that we should be holy and immaculate in His sight in love. For they think that "having received God's commands we are of ourselves by the choice of our free will made holy and immaculate in His sight in love

A Treatise on the Predestination of the Saints

Now I simply don't know what else to say. Augustine states that Pelagius and Semi-Pelagius believe in "free will". This view was CONDEMNED as heresy by the church not only in Augustine's work, but by the Council of Orange. Yet 1000 years later the Catholics accepted it and 200 years after that Protestants accepted the heresy. And now I'm being told I'm crazy for not believing in heresy.

HD-Don't blame me if you don't like being a Protestant. I'll stick with the confessions.

BoatB-Why would I blame you for what I believe?

Well, you got me on that. What a silly statement for me to make. I guess I was wrapped up in some Calvinist fervor or something. :O)

Over a doctrine that NO BODY can come down definitively on one side of or another,

I don't know why people keep repeating this. The proof that this doctrine is wrong is in Augustine's writings. Couple that with no one wants to give a definition or admit they come to Christ on their own volition should give one pause to why people keep insisting on free will as a legitimate alternative.

Look closely at your confession of faith. It is just like every confession of faith of a true believer. Please examine it:

1) There was within my heart a stirring that convinced me there was something more, something I wasn't being told about, something I was missing.

2) That stirring, of course, was the Holy Spirit and,

3) at sixteen years old, I understood the gospel from reading John 10:27-30.

4) I received Jesus Christ as my savior

5) and I was baptized into a Southern Baptist Church.

This is the EXACTLY the way God saves all of us. Study what happened very closely. There was a stirring in your heart (God coming to you). Something was missing (God opening your eyes to the truth). You understood the gospel (You heard the truth, you understood the reality). You received our Lord as your Savior (WOULD YOU HAVE TURNED HIM AWAY NOW???). And then you were baptized into the Southern Baptist Church.

Your salvation story is exactly the same as everyone. And note the order. After you had this longing that something was missing and you understood the gospel, do you real think you would turn God away?

Might I suggest you read through the London Baptist Confession of Faith. Might I also suggest reading The Great Change—Conversion by Charles Spurgeon, that great Southern Baptist preacher. It is the story of his conversion. As I'm fond of saying, there is not one Christian that believe God didn't save them.