Pope: Everyone, Even Atheists, Want to See the Face of God

Asia News ^ | 1/16/13

[marshmallow]

General audience, Benedict XVI defines the Incarnation as "something unimaginable, the face of God can be seen, the process that began with Abraham is fulfilled." The Week of Prayer for Christian Unity, he asks "for the great gift" to "proclaim together that Jesus is the Savior of the world."

Vatican City (AsiaNews) - "The desire to know the face of God is in every man, even the atheists," but this desire is only realized by following Christ, in whom, in the Incarnation, "something unimaginable took place, the journey that began with Abraham is fulfilled. He is the Son, the fullness of all Revelation; the mediator who shows us the face of God. "

And "to proclaim together that Jesus is the Saviour of the world" Benedict XVI asked for incessant prayers for "the great gift" of Christian unity in the forthcoming week, which begins on the 18th of this month.

Previously, in his catechesis, he again reflected on the meaning of Christmas, in a commentary on John's Gospel in which the apostle Philip asks Jesus to show them the Father. The answer of Jesus, "introduces us to the heart of the Church's Christological faith; For the Lord says: "Whoever has seen me has seen the Father" (Jn 14:9).This expression summarizes the novelty of the New Testament, the novelty that appeared in the cave of Bethlehem: God can be seen, he showed his face is visible in Jesus Christ".

The theme of "seeking the face of God" is present throughout the Old Testament, so much so that the Hebrew term "face", occurs no less than 400 times, 100 of which refer to God." The of Jewish religion which the religion forbids all images, "for God can not be depicted," and "can not be reduced to an object," tells us that "God...

[metmom]

Do you have an infallible definition of *predestine* and *preordain*?

Or is it only the dictionary definition like the one for free will that we have been given?

[P-Marlowe]

Do you have an infallible definition of *predestine* and *preordain*?

No I do not have an INFALLIBLE definition of anything because unlike some here I AM NOT INFALLIBLE.

I am learning. I don't know anything for certain.

Do you know for an absolute certainty that your position on soteriology is 100% correct? Do you know for certain why God chose you to be saved?

If so please tell us all so that we may end this debate and follow your teachings. We can form the Church of metmom and all be metmomists.

[metmom]

Well, if nobody else is going to provide me with any infallible definitions, then I don’t owe anyone any either.

The same questions you ask me can legitimately be asked of you.

Nobody has 100% correct anything. I don’t see any requirement in Scripture that that is a condition for salvation.

Did you know that the word translated in the Bible as *church* in the Greek is the word *assembly*?

[presently no screen name]

There is a lot they can't understand. Like they need someone/person teaching them - and not knowing the Word themselves so they can be fed anything by their 'man' teacher and going to 'man's' sermons and teachings of 'their church forefathers'.

Jesus leaves HIS Church with The Holy Spirit and satan says I/my minions can deceive and fulfill that role - and 'organized religion' was born.

Didn't the 'thought' ever enter their mind to go to the WORD/Jesus themselves and that GOD KNOWS ALL? Amazing how easily deceived they are with traditions. Genesis 3 never sunk in with many.

God's Word is the FINAL Authority for His Church/His Own. I believe Adam/Eve would agree with that NOW.

[metmom]

Kind of like the magisterium for the Catholics.

But who’s going to interpret the teachings of the magisterium?

Anyone who is incapable of correctly interpreting Scripture under the guidance of the Holy Spirit is certainly not going to do any better with man made teachings without the Holy Spirit.

[presently no screen name]

Notice how some are concerned about 'definitions' and NOT about JESUS Himself? It's no wonder they are confused - as their priorities are out of order.

Amazing how deceived they CHOOSE to be as they 'elect' that position for themselves and want to stay there.

I CHOOSE Jesus/Life and, thankfully, because of Jesus My Savior I can.

It's ALL about JESUS!

"For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified. 1 Cor 2:2

[P-Marlowe]

Well, if nobody else is going to provide me with any infallible definitions, then I don’t owe anyone any either.

But you were the one who claimed that all you needed to understand everything is the Bible and the Holy Spirit. Surely you have both. So teach me and the lurkers what the Holy Spirit, without any reference to any writings of any man, has taught you. Obviously whatever you believe cannot be in error, if, in fact what you say is true.

I am one who relies not only on the scripture and the Holy Spirit, but also the wisdom of those who have diligently and faithfully studied the scriptures 16 hours a day (you know, before there was TV, Radio and the Internet to occupy our time) to give me their wisdom and knowledge to assist me in coming to a knowledge of the truth.

So if you don't need the assistance of teachers and evangelists and pastors to have the absolute truth imparted to you, then please share that truth with us.

1 Pet 3:15 exhorts believers to give unto every man an answer. I am asking. You claim to know the truth. Tell me the truth.

Did you know that the word translated in the Bible as *church* in the Greek is the word *assembly*?

What word is that?

Are you an expert in ancient languages? Or do you think that we should consult such people when we have questions about the meaning of words translated from those languages?

[metmom]

1 Corinthians 12:28 And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues.

http://biblos.com/1_corinthians/12-28.htm

*church* = ekklēsia

From Stong's

http://biblesuite.com/greek/1577.htm

1577 ekklēsía(from 1537 /ek, "out from and to" and 2564 /kaléō, "to call") – properly, people called out from the world and to God, the outcome being the Church (the mystical body of Christ) – i.e. the universal (total) body of believers whom God calls out from the world and into His eternal kingdom.

[The English word "church" comes from the Greek word kyriakos, "belonging to the Lord" (kyrios). 1577 /ekklēsía ("church") is the root of the terms "ecclesiology" and "ecclesiastical."]

Definition an assembly, a (religious) congregation

[metmom]

1 Corinthians 2:11-16 11 For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. 13 And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.

14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. 15 The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. 16 “For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

Do you not believe that the Holy Spirit can guide any individual into truth though reading and studying, and memorizing Scripture?

Are Calvinists, like Catholics, all hung up on formal education in universities and seminaries as qualifications to understand Scripture and to have the mind of Christ?

Does studying Scripture 16 hours a day REALLY make one less prone to error or more prone to being correct?

I'd rather listen to the non-scholar who lives the word than some *scholar* somewhere whose *education* is supposed to wow us.

[metmom]

PM:”So if you don’t need the assistance of teachers and evangelists and pastors to have the absolute truth imparted to you, then please share that truth with us.”

Here’s a link to the absolute truth....

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=ESV

[presently no screen name]

Kind of like the magisterium for the Catholics.

Exactly!

But who’s going to interpret the teachings of the magisterium?

We and others have and that's why we left.

Anyone who is incapable of correctly interpreting Scripture under the guidance of the Holy Spirit is certainly not going to do any better with man made teachings without the Holy Spirit.

Man made teachings only needs human understanding - that's why they are all WORLDLY organizations. For example, one reason why 'they understand' the mother concept and, then, go on to make her Queen, etc.

And that is NOT the teachings of the Holy Spirit inspired Word for JESUS says...

Matthew 12:48 "Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?

Pointing to His disciples, He said, "Here are my mother and my brothers.

"Matthew 12:50 For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother."

There is that "Will" again for those concerned about *definitions*. Wonder if they know what 'obedience to God's Will' means? Wonder, also, if they will go to the dictionary to find out.

"Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean NOT on your OWN understanding; in ALL your ways acknowledge HIM, and HE will make your paths straight."

And 'who' have they acknowledge time and time again but 'man' and their teachings/sermons/writings and/or 'their church forefathers'.

They believe 'man's thoughts and ways are higher than God's Ways and thoughts...just like Adam/Eve did.

"As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are MY ways higher than your ways and MY thoughts than your thoughts."

And God gave His Word to ALL and ALL did not receive HIM.

And 'who' kept The Word hidden and 'who' twists The Word and 'who' instructs to look to 'man' for answers?

It's root is in Gen 3.

It's never that God allows while evil is in the world because evil is NOT God's perfect will. Man/Adam was given dominion over the earth and Adam handed it over to satan but JESUS came as man (because God gave dominion to man & HE honors His Own Word) and reclaimed it and satan has been fighting for it ever since. A few believe JESUS and many stayed with satan/'Did God really say?' with man made teachings.

And how MANY of those say they believe Jesus? Another deception from satan - he has no problem with them saying it because he knows they follow him/man made teachings.

The Lord says: "These people come near to Me with their mouth and honor Me with their lips, but their hearts are far from ME. Their worship of Me is made up only of rules taught by men." Isaiah 29:13

"You can enter God's Kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell is broad, and its gate is wide for the MANY who CHOOSE that way.

"But the gateway to LIFE is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a FEW ever find it".

Do we dare list the MANY 'organized religions' there are and 'the men' they quote and how many encourage us to read their writings?

God's WORD is *ALL* I need and want. It's ALL about Jesus and HIS WORD is FINAL.

[metmom]

*all*

Did God really say...???

*All* doesn’t mean *all* it means what we say it means; like some of all, or all of some, or all of some kinds.

Or something.......

[P-Marlowe]

Here’s a link to the absolute truth....

And who told you that the ESV was a correct translation of the bible?

There are those who believe that the King James is the only true word of God and that the ESV is a false translation. Are those people deceived?

How do you know which translation is correct?

[presently no screen name]

Exactly. It appears to many that “All” means whatever ‘man’ wants it to be.

It must be from that ‘free will’ thingie ‘man’ does but doesn’t know how to define it.

[P-Marlowe]

From Stong's.....

It is interesting that you would not rely solely on the bible and the holy spirit to give you a definition of "church", but instead you relied on Methodist Dr. James Strong, Professor of exegetical theology at Drew Theological Seminary

Do you realize that without the work of Dr. Strong in carefully examining the original languages that you as a layman would not be able to argue about the meaning of "Church" at all. You would only have the word in the bible, which, of course, was translated by numerous dedicated biblical scholars like Dr. Strong.

So, if you want to avoid the work of men and want to rely solely on the Bible and the Holy Spirit, then I think it is hypocritical to call upon James Strong to support your arguments.

Indeed it would be hypocritical to rely upon any translation of the bible at all, since any English translation that you use is the product of numerous biblical scholars and teachers and pastors.

[P-Marlowe]

Do you not believe that the Holy Spirit can guide any individual into truth though reading and studying, and memorizing Scripture?

Certainly.

Are Calvinists, like Catholics, all hung up on formal education in universities and seminaries as qualifications to understand Scripture and to have the mind of Christ?

While it is certainly not necessary to go to a university or a seminary to understand scripture, if you are intending to take on the awesome responsibility of leading a flock, I think it is important that you spend as much time and energy as possible to study and learn as much as possible. A degree does attest to the fact that you have at least put in a few dedicated years into your profession in order to educate yourself. It is not necessary, but clearly a commitment to learning and studying is necessary.

Does studying Scripture 16 hours a day REALLY make one less prone to error or more prone to being correct?

There was a time when everyone worked 12 to 16 hours a day at their jobs. If your job is to teach scripture and theology to others, a commitment to working on that endeavor as much as the people in your congregation work at their jobs is not too much to ask, is it?

I'd rather listen to the non-scholar who lives the word than some *scholar* somewhere whose *education* is supposed to wow us.

There are scholars who live the word. They are not only living the word, but they have studied it dilligently. Are you suggesting that everyone who has a degree in Theology is somehow suspect? You quoted Strong's lexicon earlier. Do you have any idea how much time and energy he put into that project so that you could quote him?

[presently no screen name]

I'd rather listen to the non-scholar who lives the word than some *scholar* somewhere whose *education* is supposed to wow us.

Exactly. But isn't it interesting how they post I am one who relies not only on the scripture and the Holy Spirit but also the wisdom of those .

So iIt shows how they listen to 'man' MORE because God CLEARLY says in His Word....

"If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to ALL without finding fault, and it will be given to him." James 1:5

How's that for obedience? They look to others, more specifically, IMO, 'CERTAIN OTHERS' who scratch the 'elect' ear. Or did they overlook James 1:5 - because it says *ALL*?

How's this for attitude towards you.....But you were the one who claimed that all you needed to understand everything is the Bible and the Holy Spirit and Obviously whatever you believe cannot be in error, if, in fact what you say is true.....Are you an expert in ancient languages?

YET, we read I am one who relies ...also the wisdom of those who have diligently and faithfully studied the scriptures 16 hours a day.

Besides seeing massive confusion here; it appears, metmom, IF you are NOT going to say someone is *elect* you will be challenged.

[HarleyD]

How many times is "God's Will" used?

In how many forms? This is what the Bible is all about:

Jas 4:15-16 Instead you ought to say, "If the Lord wills, we will live and do this or that." As it is, you boast in your arrogance. All such boasting is evil.

Psa_143:10 Teach me to do your will, for you are my God! Let your good Spirit lead me on level ground!

Mat_6:10 Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.

If you don't obey God's Will - what do you call it?

It's not that you "obey" God's will. That's precisely the whole mess of "free will". I have decided to obey....

It that God changes your heart to follow His leading. "The Lord is my Shephard...He LEADS me into green pastures." Not following God's will is rebellion and is called sin.

[P-Marlowe]

Isn't it ironic that these people all rag on the idea of quoting "scholars" and how they rely solely on the bible, yet they fail to acknowledge or appreciate that every English Translation we have is the result of thousands upon thousands of hours of intense and dilligent work of ..... SCHOLARS.

These people who claim they follow the interpretations of no man, quote English Bibles which contain untold thousands of verses and words which were interpreted and then translated by the same men they claim they would never ever follow.

Unless these people have the actual original manuscripts and they are intimately familiar with ancient Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek, it is laughable that they would claim that they don't rely upon the teachings of any man.

But do you think they will acknowledge their blatant hypocrisy?

I don't think so, but then I could be wrong.

[xzins]

Did you know that the word translated in the Bible as *church* in the Greek is the word *assembly*?

That is not accurate. The word used for church is "ecclesia", ek-out, clesia (from caleo, calein) - called.

It means in Greek, "The called out ones"

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

kajgw; {P-1NS} dev {CONJ} soi {P-2DS} levgw {V-PAI-1S} o&ti {CONJ} su; {P-2NS} ei\ {V-PXI-2S} Pevtro?, {N-NSM} kai; {CONJ} ejpi; {PREP} tauvth/ {D-DSF} th'/ {T-DSF} pevtra/ {N-DSF} oijkodomhvsw {V-FAI-1S} mou {P-1GS} th;n {T-ASF} ejkklhsivan, {N-ASF} kai; {CONJ} puvlai {N-NPF} a&/dou {N-GSM} ouj {PRT} katiscuvsousin {V-FAI-3P} aujth'?. {P-GSF}

Assembly, on the other hand, is "panEgurei" which means: pan (all), egurei (gathering) from agora (public meeting place)

It means something like "the gathering of all". In Hebrews 12:23 they are used together and the meaning you propose would make the verse senseless: He 12: 23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect ,