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To: CynicalBear
Paul said to even check what he taught with scripture but the RCC says check with them before reading scripture.

Kind of right, but not 100%...Christ established a church for that very purpose, otherwise it would not be necessary at all. The very existance of 20,000 "Denomiations" of protestantism prove that fact. Christ established 1 church, Catholicism, and gave her the keys to the kingdom of Heaven, she did just fine for over 1,600 years until along came Martin and the gang to set things straight...no, do it this way....no do it that way....no this is truth, ....no that is truth.....no, being Catholic is too hard, we like to sleep in on Sunday,....no, going to confession is a pain and embarrasing, ....no, music is not allowed in church...., no, statues are icons and someone probably prays to them, ....no you have to dunk someone under water to baptize them,....no, it's just bread and wine, not the body and blood of Jesus (even though He said it was)...it goes on and on...when a group of dissidents leaves any organization, they come up with a zillion reasons to justify, in their minds, why they did so....sad

2,103 posted on 01/18/2013 7:53:12 PM PST by terycarl
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To: terycarl; CynicalBear
The very existance of 20,000 "Denomiations" of protestantism prove that fact

So which flavor of the 20+ some Catholic rites is the correct one?

It doesn't matter if there is 20 or 20,000. The fact that there are more than one shows that the Catholic church is in no different position than the *Protestants* they condemn.

2,109 posted on 01/18/2013 8:02:49 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: terycarl
>>she did just fine for over 1,600 years<<

Did just fine you say? The RCC incorporated Pagan rituals, ceremonies, and symbols. Incorporated the “queen of heaven” from pagan religions. The RCC killed people they called “heretics” in some of the most horrendous ways. The RCC made up things like a sinless Mary, the assumption of Mary, and “Christianized” the many gods of the pagans and called them “Saints”. You call that “did just fine”? I think not so much.

Interesting that in your little diatribe you don’t mention anything of salvation through Christ alone but focus only on institutions of man’s making. I find that very telling. It’s typical of those who follow religions based on “new revelation” or “extra Biblical” teaching.

One thing Catholics always seem to forget is that now where has it been stated that I can tell that any of those other “denominations” don’t also have their error. It’s simply that none of those other “religions” tie salvation to anything other than Christ that I can tell. The RCC, Muslims, and Mormons on the other hand tie salvation to belonging to that organization.

2,114 posted on 01/18/2013 8:09:05 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: terycarl; CynicalBear; boatbums; smvoice; Syncro; Elsie; presently no screen name; daniel1212
Kind of right, but not 100%...Christ established a church for that very purpose, otherwise it would not be necessary at all. The very existance of 20,000 "Denomiations" of protestantism prove that fact. Christ established 1 church, Catholicism, and gave her the keys to the kingdom of Heaven, she did just fine for over 1,600 years until along came Martin and the gang to set things straight...no, do it this way....no do it that way....no this is truth, ....no that is truth.....no, being Catholic is too hard, we like to sleep in on Sunday,....no, going to confession is a pain and embarrasing, ....no, music is not allowed in church...., no, statues are icons and someone probably prays to them, ....no you have to dunk someone under water to baptize them,....no, it's just bread and wine, not the body and blood of Jesus (even though He said it was)...it goes on and on...when a group of dissidents leaves any organization, they come up with a zillion reasons to justify, in their minds, why they did so....sad

The one unifying factor is that salvation is by grace through faith in Christ, not of works so that no one can boast.

Virtually all the rest falls into the *disputable matters* category, areas where differences of opinion are allowed that do not affect ones salvation.

Romans 14:1-23 As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. 2 One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. 3 Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. 4 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

5 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God.

7 For none of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord. So then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord's. 9 For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.

10 Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; 11 for it is written, “As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.” 12 So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.

13 Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother. 14 I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself, but it is unclean for anyone who thinks it unclean. 15 For if your brother is grieved by what you eat, you are no longer walking in love. By what you eat, do not destroy the one for whom Christ died.

16 So do not let what you regard as good be spoken of as evil. 17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18 Whoever thus serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men. 19 So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding.

20 Do not, for the sake of food, destroy the work of God. Everything is indeed clean, but it is wrong for anyone to make another stumble by what he eats. 21 It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble. 22 The faith that you have, keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who has no reason to pass judgment on himself for what he approves. 23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if he eats, because the eating is not from faith. For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin.

I know that the concept of disputable matters is foreign to the Catholic mind as absolute conformance to Catholic doctrine is demanded on pain of losing one's salvation, as attested to numerous decrees etc from popes and councils through the ages, but God allows for leeway in many areas.

2,121 posted on 01/18/2013 8:11:47 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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