D12: The question is not whether the entire church was apostate, as cults or unlearned argue, but whether being the instrument and steward of Scripture, which you hold Rome to be, makes such them the indisputable authority, with perpetual assured infallibility, and without whose sanction one cannot have authority.
Is that basically your argumentation, as I am still waiting for your answer.
TC: Yes
Well then, you have effectively just nuked the church, as it was born in dissent from those who were the stewards of Holy Writ and the official teachers of it, (Rm. 3:2; 9:4; Mt. 23:2) having historical descent and being the inheritor of the promises of God. (Rm. 3:2; 9:4; Lv. 10:11; Dt. 4:31; 17:8-13; Num. 23:19,23; Is. 41:10, Ps. 89:33,34; Mal. 3:6)
But which did not require or equate to perpetual assured infallibility or authenticity through formal descent, and like Rome in presuming a level of assured veracity and authority above what is written, (cf. 1Cor. 4:6) they challenged the unsanctioned (by them) authority of the Itinerant Preach of Nazareth; (Mk. 11:28-30)
Who reproved them by Scripture for teaching as doctrines mere tradition of the elders, (Mk. 7:3-16) and established His claims upon Scriptural substantiation, in text and in power, as did the apostles and early church. (Mt. 22:23-45; Lk. 24:27,44; Jn. 5:36,39; Acts 2:14-35; 4:33; 5:12; 15:6-21;17:2,11; 18:28; 28:23; Rm. 15:19; 2Cor. 12:12, etc.)
And that Scripture was the supreme transcendent material standard for obedience and testing truth claims is abundantly testified to in Scripture.
Therefore, as it is clear that OT writings were supernaturally established (essentially due to their unique Divine qualities) and truth preserved before there was a church in Rome, (Lk. 24:44) then it is manifest that Rome's assured infallibility is not necessary for that. Nor does being the stewards of Scripture and official teachers of it mean the same cannot be seriously in error. But what is revealed is that God is able to raise up men from without the official magisterium to reprove it and carry on His truth. And that is why the church began in dissent, and that is how it has sometimes been preserved.
The issue here is how authority is Scripturally established and continually verified, which is by the above means of Scriptural substantiation in word and in power, for of such is the kingdom of God,. (1Cor. 4:20).
In contrast, your assurance cannot be from that means Scripture, lest you be a evangelical Protestant, but it rests upon the premise of the assured infallibility of Rome, who has infallibly declared she is and will be perpetually infallible whenever she speaks in accordance with her infallibly defined (scope and subject-based) formula, which renders her declaration that she is infallible, to be infallible, as well as all else she accordingly declares. But which formulaic assured infallibility is not what is taught in the Scriptures.
Moreover, while RCs argue against the supremacy of Scripture on the basis that man's fallible human reasoning cannot provide assurance (contra 1Jn. 5:13) and results in division because they lack an infallible interpreter, yet RCs do not have an infallible interpreter of their supreme authority, the magisterium, and must also rely on fallible human reasoning to discern what magisterial class teaching falls into, and thus what degree of submission is required, and to some degree what it means, and even their decision to submit to Rome relies on fallible human reasoning. .
In addition, under the Roman Catholic model, that of sola ecclesia, in which the Church is supreme, then you also have divisions and substantial disagreement. And if you doctrinal unity itself is the goal, then certain sola ecclesia cults win the prize.
Ultimately, souls find assurance the same way they came to realize that Jesus was who He claimed to be, which was not by looking to the official teachers as assuredly infallible (though they are needed), but by seeking the Lord in the light of Scriptural substantiation.
While that method must allow for even the devil arguing Scripture, it compels the church to overcome evil with good, by the word of God, by holiness and the power of God, (cf. 2Cor. 6:4-10) manifesting that it is the church of the living God, (1Tim. 3:15) not its institutionalized counterpart that largely goes about sounding its own horn.
May all real believers better manifest that Jesus is risen, and “hath showed Himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs..” (Acts 1:3) And may God forgive us and me for coming short in that to varying degrees.
But which did not require or equate to perpetual assured infallibility or authenticity through formal descent, and like Rome in presuming a level of assured veracity and authority above what is written, (cf. 1Cor. 4:6) they challenged the unsanctioned (by them) authority of the Itinerant Preach of Nazareth; (Mk. 11:28-30)
Who reproved them by Scripture for teaching as doctrines mere tradition of the elders, (Mk. 7:3-16) and established His claims upon Scriptural substantiation, in text and in power, as did the apostles and early church. (Mt. 22:23-45; Lk. 24:27,44; Jn. 5:36,39; Acts 2:14-35; 4:33; 5:12; 15:6-21;17:2,11; 18:28; 28:23; Rm. 15:19; 2Cor. 12:12, etc.)
Spewing my morning milk...