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To: CynicalBear
"Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Mary was 'under the law' so was a sinful person as 'all' have sinned.

Galatians 4:4-5, 'But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.'"

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The term "under the law" does NOT refer to whether a person has sinned or not. It refers to those born under Judaism and the Mosaic Law, which Jesus Christ freed all of us from. See these other texts from Paul which clearly illumine that point:

Romans 7:6

But now we are discharged from the law, dead to that which held us captive, so that we serve not under the old written code but in the new life of the Spirit.

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1 Corinthians 9:20

To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews; to those under the law I became as one under the law—though not being myself under the law—that I might win those under the law.

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Now, when it says "all have sinned", do you think that includes Jesus, or that Paul by mistake made a horrendous and embarrassing blunder in his writing, or do you think that Paul assumed his readers were smart enough and discerning enough so that he did not need to add, "...except for..."?

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The nonsense of “if scripture doesn’t say it didn’t happen then we can say it did” is exactly what the Mormons, Muslims and other cults claim.

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If I, or FReepers "Joe-Schmoo" or "Suzy-Snow" claim they are the FReeper "CynicalBear", then that IS nonsense, but if FReeper "CynicalBear" claims to be FReeper "CynicalBear", that is simply the truth.

By the way, the Muslims and the Mormons and the other cults did NOT tell you that those two "Books" of the Bible you quoted from (Romans and Galatians) were part of the Bible, and the Bible itself did NOT tell you that those two "Books" were part of the Bible -- the Catholic Church told you that those two "Books", "Romans" and "Galatians" were part of the Bible.    I think it is good that you at least listen to the Holy-Spirit-guided declaration by the Catholic Church on that specific matter, and do not carelessly say, "Oh, that was just nonsense when the Catholic Church officially declared what writings belong in the New Testament".

(I have to go back to work now, but I'll try to check in again when I get a chance. Take care.)

1,207 posted on 01/11/2013 7:18:47 PM PST by Heart-Rest ("The Church is the pillar and bulwark of the truth." (1 Timothy 3:15))
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To: Heart-Rest
>>The term "under the law" does NOT refer to whether a person has sinned or not.<<

Oh yes it does. Born under the law of sin and death.

Romans 6:14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Mary was born under the law of sin and death and could not have been sin free until Christ took those sins upon Himself and paid the price for those sins.

>>Now, when it says "all have sinned", do you think that includes Jesus, or that Paul by mistake made a horrendous and embarrassing blunder in his writing, or do you think that Paul assumed his readers were smart enough and discerning enough so that he did not need to add, "...except for..."?<<

Well, let’s see what scripture says about that.

1 Peter 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth.

Hebrews 4:15 For we have not an High Priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, >who knew not sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

1 John 3:5"And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin." >>the Catholic Church told you that those two "Books", "Romans" and "Galatians" were part of the Bible<<

Catholics like to give glory to man. God could have used a rock to bring us the scriptures He wanted us to have. It was God who preserved His word to us. I don’t need to “listen to the Catholic Church”. I have the Holy Spirit and God’s clear words to us through the inspired written word.

1,235 posted on 01/12/2013 5:16:23 AM PST by CynicalBear
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To: Heart-Rest
Now, when it says "all have sinned", do you think that includes Jesus, or that Paul by mistake made a horrendous and embarrassing blunder in his writing, or do you think that Paul assumed his readers were smart enough and discerning enough so that he did not need to add, "...except for..."?

Pope Paul didn't assume his readers were smart enough...These people were taught that Jesus alone, was sinless...

Act 20:27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.

Why would you think Paul would teach that all had sinned but had left important scripture out???

1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 1Pe 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:

1,245 posted on 01/12/2013 7:29:09 AM PST by Iscool
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