Posted on 01/06/2013 3:56:49 PM PST by NYer
Of course there were other Christians. The Catholic church acknowledged their existence by ending it.
The Church does not teach that works are the cause of Salvation, but Salvation is impossible apart from good works. Works, the corporeal and spiritual works of mercy that are the Fruit of the Holy Spirit, are the evidence of the presence of the Holy Spirit in the heart of the believer. When there are no good works in your life the Holy Spirit is absent too.
Peace be with you
Brilliant! Absolutely Clintonesque!
both statements say the same thing...in my post 2211, I was questining your ability to discern the differance...ie, the question marks following the statement. I probably should have started that statement with "does that mean that you really can't......etc.
The Holy Spirit works through the lives of the individual believers who ARE the church, the organism, the TRUE church, the body of Christ.
It's just not *the Church*, capital *C*, which by precedent refers to the Roman Catholic church, the organization.
In the letter to the Corinthians, Paul writes to the believers in Corinth....
1 Corinthians 12:27 Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it.
So who came up with it that you’re accusing me of accusing another FReeper of posting while under the influence to the RM?
A freeper came up with that concept? I thought only Popes and such set those concepts. Do they now let regular lay members establish what the RCC sets as a belief? Wow! Who knew?
They don’t say the same thing and post 2211 was not made to me.
It sounded like that rhapsodizing nonsense from that one pope about Mary that you’ve posted before.
The *I’m all yours* pope.
Or am I thinking of another FReeper?
Paul taught that works are of God's creation and not our own. Any works we create outside of that are done in vain.
Paul also taught that the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. I am surprised that the Church would teach something that conflicts with what Paul taught.
Oh that’s funny. Do Catholics not see the difference between works that are a result of salvation and works to earn salvation. Why would one make a comment like “I hope you have done enough of………”) if ones salvation is not contingent on works? So how much is enough per the RCC? Is there a check off system or is that why Catholics never know whether they are saved or not?
“Now you are the body and individually members of it”
That being the case, and knowing that as a person who has given myself totally to Jesus Christ, I am a part of His Body.
Therein lies a problem with all the condescension of those Catholics who are part of His Body; as St. Paul wrote, He cannot deny us, for He cannot deny Himself.
Jesus also said that He would not cast out any who come to Him. I cannot be cast out for I have come to Him.
What is to be done with people like me? Say it isn’t true that I am “saved”? No—there is no way that can be said.
Neither can it be said by putting ALL Catholics together and making claim that they aren’t sons by adoption based on the personal opinion (belief) that assumes that their faith is in error.
I don’t think I posted the “rhapsodizing” one. I have posted the prayer by the pope who was obviously praying to Mary. I do know that one of the Popes, I think it was the last one, who dedicated his life to Mary.
Because I do not see evidence of the Fruit of the Holy Spirit in you posting history. I do hope it is present in the portion of your life not visible in the forum.
Peace be to you.
Contrary to what the Catholic Church would have us believe, the early church fathers were big supporters of having people read and understand the scriptures. Chrystrostom encouraged people to read the scriptures and complained that they were not doing so. One of the fathers stated that if you were sitting in church and heard false doctrine being preached, the Holy Spirit would have you put your hands up to your ears and you would run screaming from the church. (Or something like that.) :O)
Furthermore, while our dear Catholic friends would like to talk about their council, here is a little gem Alex led me to:
The Vincentian Canon states that sound doctrine is built off of scripture and the way you can tell heretical doctrine is through the scriptures albeit, one should also reflect on sound teaching. Today our Catholic friends have this exactly backwards.
It is also plain from the early writings (and simple logic) that bishops and others were free to read and interpret sacred writings. It was when people strayed from sound doctrine not found in the scriptures that councils were called and people were branded as heretics. The Reformers encouragement of reading scriptures came from the same beliefs as the early fathers. For the scriptures are the power of God. They believed in the inerrant word of God profitable for teaching and reproof.
It was never taught that people were not allowed to study scripture until the 4th Lateran Council of 1215 decreed it so; that people were not even allowed to read it. The Council of Trent backed off (a little bit) of this extreme idea by saying, "Hey, it's OK to read it but we'll tell you what it means." What a stupid concept and is the reason Catholics today cannot figure out how scripture differs from any other writings. The early fathers never had that problem.
Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
"I don't know who made up that kind of unscriptural nonsense and under what circumstances, but I want some of whatever they were on next time I am in the hospital."Are you accusing another FReeper of posting while under the influence in violation of Forum rules and protocols?
Was I wrong in thinking that what you posted: " In the Eucharist the Church takes up her Marian role, becoming once again the place where the Spirit conceives the Body of Christ" was doctrine of the Catholic church or did you indeed make that up from what St Francis said in a foriegn language?
Or were you translating?
It seems you could have just asked that question of the poster instead of bothering the Religion Moderator.
You got your answer, it wasn't an accusation towards you. It was a statement that it wasn't known who made it up.
It was put so eloquently it was probably thought it was a edict from the church "Fathers."
Oh, and by the way--for clarification-- the statement about the Holy Spirit was:
What an appalling misunderstanding of the role and function of the Holy Spirit in this worldYour statement
...you begin with the premise that the Holy Spirit does not and cannot work through His Church...doesn't fit with what was posted to you.
First of all, the body of Christ is made up of all saved born again believers, it is NOT the Catholic church.
It is NOT His church because it denies that any Christian who is not a member has Everlasting Life.
The body of Christ can only be the COMPLETE sum of ALL believers, not just the Catholic ones.
Catholics are members if they are saved born again Christians.
It was the last Pope, John Paul the something. I’m looking for the exact wording he had sewn into his skirt about her and will post it when I find it...
I’m sure there are saved people in the Catholic church just as there are saved people in every church.
And there are unsaved people in every church, including the Catholic church.
Because salvation is based on faith in Christ, not faith in church membership, baptism, works, or whatever else is added to faith in Christ.
If someone chooses to continue in the Catholic church while being saved, that’s their prerogative.
But for the RCC to state that salvation is found in it alone and that outside of the Catholic church there is no salvation is wrong. As is conflating the terms *Catholic* and *Christian*.
Not all Catholics are Christians and not all Christians are Catholic.
When those erroneous statements are made, people will speak out.
And the Catholic church has no authority over those who choose to not put themselves under it.
Do you know what an apology is?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.