It would probably be easier if you simply told me how someone can be certain that he has eternal security.
---God always loves us. But sometimes, we don't love Him. Like when we sin.---
A false dichotomy. No wonder Catholics get confused about stuff. They start out with wrong premises regularly.
My love for God does not turn on or off. I love Him always. My behavior doesn't always line up with what He or I would like, but my sinning is not an indicator of my not loving Him.
I love my wife, even though I beat her and her children regularly... See my point?
Catholics don't claim that popes are impeccable. What a cop out. We're not talking about impeccable. We're talking about gross, deviant immorality done by those who are supposed to be Peter's successors, Christ's representatives here on earth.
What is the degree of sin that makes it impossible for sinners to be successors of the Apostles? Theft? Blasphemy? Lust? Greed? Fornication?
The Apostles were sinners, before and after Christ's death on the Cross. The successors to the Apostles have been sinners too, but also great saints. I don't understand why this point is supposed to be fatal to Apostolic succession. We see Apostolic succession in the Council of Jerusalem, where Matthias takes Judas' bishopric.
I find it ironic and hypocritical that Catholics blow off the abominable behavior of their popes and priest with a *well, nobody is perfect* flippant attitude and yet when a non-Catholic sins, they are all over him like white on rice.
Suppose that all Catholics do this. What's your point?
If any non-Catholic religious leader did half of what some of your popes have done, they would be rightly soundly condemned by non-Catholic churches and completely shredded by Catholics.
And... what? Catholics are hypocrites? Inconsistent in their actions? I suppose many are.
Ted Haggard comes to mind and yet what he did pales by comparison to what some of your popes have been recorded as having done and from Catholics all we get is *well, nobody is perfect*? "Catholics don't claim that popes are impeccable." Give me a break.
OK. Now what?
All those examples of gross immorality that Catholics like to give and then ask that if a *Protestant* did, are they still saved, applies to Catholics as well.
Of course. What we don't understand is how anyone can be certain of his salvation. Reasonably sure? Yes. Certain? No.
""Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall"
I've posted those verse plenty of times. YOU need to see them again???
I love my wife, even though I beat her and her children regularly... See my point?
Is she still your wife and are they still your children? Your bad behavior does not break the relationship, though it damages it.
What is the degree of sin that makes it impossible for sinners to be successors of the Apostles? Theft? Blasphemy? Lust? Greed? Fornication?
The Apostles were sinners, before and after Christ's death on the Cross. The successors to the Apostles have been sinners too, but also great saints. I don't understand why this point is supposed to be fatal to Apostolic succession. We see Apostolic succession in the Council of Jerusalem, where Matthias takes Judas' bishopric.
Still no excuse for the abominable behavior of your popes and still, if they are not saved, how can there be an unbroken succession of popes?
Suppose that all Catholics do this. What's your point? And... what? Catholics are hypocrites? Inconsistent in their actions? I suppose many are.
Yeah, they are and are in no position to cast stones, as they are so often wont to do.
Of course. What we don't understand is how anyone can be certain of his salvation. Reasonably sure? Yes. Certain? No. ""Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall"
And how do you read *losing salvation* into *fall*?
Of course not. For one thing, Catholics are taught from the cradle that they can't be sure, so they end up believing it.
But that then puts the person in the position of calling God a liar who does say that we can know.
We can be certain because any born again believer has the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit and when you have that, you KNOW it.
Faith is believing God. God says we can know. That's what faith is, trusting God, believing what He says is true, having confidence in His word.
Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.