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To: annalex
So how about this born-again true blood Protestant dying and cursing God -- is he saved, according to your newfound Protestant faith?

I'll take a stab at the trick question.

First of all, if the person in question was a genuinely born again believer in Jesus Christ, he has the indwelling Holy Spirit who will never leave or forsake him. If he was sent to hell for "cursing" God, the Holy Spirit would go with him there - not possible. Secondly, by "cursing" God at his death bed, are you saying he is rejecting his faith or is he in so much pain that it only sounds like he is cursing God due to excruciating agony? If he is rejecting his faith - and he really means it - then I would question if his faith was genuine to begin with. The Holy Spirit is within a believer, so especially in times of dire stress, he is a strong presence there, so a person who is under extreme duress probably would not curse God. And, if he slips up in this instant, after a lifetime of faith, I believe the grace of God is so strong that, yes, he would still be saved. You see, there is NOTHING that can separate us from God's love which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:38,39)

So, in your hypothetical example, the answer is relative to what only God is able to see - a man's heart. Now, this is unlike the example Metmom gave about the numerous Popes who were not at all hypothetical - they actually DID those things and probably far worse than we'll ever know about. Yet they were elected by supposedly Godly men for a position that is supposedly ordained by God, Himself, so that there is an "unbroken line of succession from St. Peter". The question must be how do you rectify the actual? We can argue hypotheticals all night.

4,799 posted on 01/07/2013 8:04:18 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums
If he is rejecting his faith - and he really means it - then I would question if his faith was genuine to begin with.

So he may have thought that he was "once saved, always saved," but actually wasn't?

The Holy Spirit is within a believer, so especially in times of dire stress, he is a strong presence there, so a person who is under extreme duress probably would not curse God. And, if he slips up in this instant, after a lifetime of faith, I believe the grace of God is so strong that, yes, he would still be saved. You see, there is NOTHING that can separate us from God's love which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:38,39)

God always loves us. But sometimes, we don't love Him. Like when we sin.

So, in your hypothetical example, the answer is relative to what only God is able to see - a man's heart.

So how does this support "eternal security?"

Now, this is unlike the example Metmom gave about the numerous Popes who were not at all hypothetical - they actually DID those things and probably far worse than we'll ever know about. Yet they were elected by supposedly Godly men for a position that is supposedly ordained by God, Himself, so that there is an "unbroken line of succession from St. Peter". The question must be how do you rectify the actual? We can argue hypotheticals all night.

Who picked Judas to be an Apostle?

Catholics don't claim that popes are impeccable.

4,800 posted on 01/07/2013 8:14:18 PM PST by St_Thomas_Aquinas
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To: boatbums
If he is rejecting his faith - and he really means it - then I would question if his faith was genuine to begin with

Thank you. Indeed, that is the answer a literate Protestant should be able to give at once -- it is the Protestant multiplication table. It was amusing to see all these professors of Protestantism beating around the bush for so long.

I would agree, to the extent that cursing and rejecting God (due to pain, or pride, or some other sin) shows immaturuty of faith. That man had faith but he had not enough of it. He was not saved. So therefore, faith, unless strengthened by works, is not yet mature faith. We are not saved by faith alone.

Of course cursing God at death was merely a simple example. The sinning popes, -- assuming their sins were not confessed and forgiven afterward, -- would be another example of faith dead for lack of good works.

4,816 posted on 01/08/2013 5:38:27 AM PST by annalex (fear them not)
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