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To: stfassisi
Saints Intercede for us ,dear Sister.

Jesus and the Holy Spirit intercede for us according to the will of God.

Romans 8:26-24 26 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. 27 And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? 33 Who shall bring any charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.

1 Timothy 2:1-6 First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, 2 for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. 3 This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.

Here, go to the Greek....

1 Timothy 2:3

and

1 Timothy 2:5

Those verses from Timothy you posted have a lot added to them that is not in the original Greek. even the Douay-Rheims Bible does not add all that about subordinate mediators.

The cloud of witnesses means nothing more than that. It says NOTHING about them being able to do anything for us and makes no reference to their ability to answer prayer.

If someone besides God could answer prayer, then someone besides God would get the glory for it, and that is just wrong.

3,057 posted on 12/29/2012 10:07:22 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom

“”Those verses from Timothy you posted have a lot added to them that is not in the original Greek””

Not true,dear sister,because all that matters is the correct INTERPRETATION of Scripture by the EARLY Christians though the ages.These interpretations were upheld through the ages and were guided by the Holy Spirit and became dogma to back it up.

You can’t show early “Christian” writings that deny intercession of Saints,that alone should make you realize that God wanted us to know about the Holy FAMILY in heaven and earth. Heaven and earth is a place where we contribute in UNION with Christ through love for others to bring prayer to Him and ask for His Grace to help others.

Our Lord came in a human nature to show us we contribute though sacrifice and prayer, I’m saddened that you can’t recognize this!

[T]hat it is neither possible for us ever to forsake Christ, who suffered for the salvation of such as shall be saved throughout the whole world (the blameless one for sinners), nor to worship any other. For Him indeed, as being the Son of God, we adore; but the martyrs, as disciples and followers of the Lord, we worthily love on account of their extraordinary affection towards their own King and Master, of whom may we also be made companions and fellow disciples! The centurion then, seeing the strife excited by the Jews, placed the body in the midst of the fire, and consumed it. Accordingly, we afterwards took up his bones, as being more precious than the most exquisite jewels, and more purified than gold, and deposited them in a fitting place, whither, being gathered together, as opportunity is allowed us, with joy and rejoicing, the Lord shall grant us to celebrate the anniversary of his martyrdom, both in memory of those who have already finished their course, and for the exercising and preparation of those yet to walk in their steps.” Martyrdom of Polycarp 17,18 (A.D. 157).


3,133 posted on 12/29/2012 5:05:57 PM PST by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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