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To: NYer
I'd just like to say, as one of FR's long-time atheists, I am always fascinated by these discussions.

The Catholics vs Protestants variety is usually more interesting than Mormons vs Almost Everyone Else, as there are lots of posters on both sides as a result of Catholics not having gotten the en masse zot.

If I ever were to become a convert to Christianity, it would obviously be vital to my salvation to pick the right sect, and not mistakenly select one of all the others which are heretical....

.....but which is it????

143 posted on 12/09/2012 6:06:18 PM PST by Notary Sojac (Only liberals believe that people can be made virtuous via legislative enactment.)
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To: Notary Sojac

You’re good with history. Just pick Jesus’ denomination.


150 posted on 12/09/2012 6:18:48 PM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True supporters of our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: Notary Sojac
If I ever were to become a convert to Christianity, it would obviously be vital to my salvation to pick the right sect, and not mistakenly select one of all the others which are heretical.... .....but which is it????

None of them because being right with God is all about Jesus not some rite, sect, or denomination. Jesus is not the sole property of any one of them and none of them has control over the forgiveness HE freely gives those who place their trust in Him.

This IS heresy to many, but salvation is not based on baptism, communion, confession to priests, membership in any church, or any other thing someone will try to convince you that you need to do.

Paul stated it succintly in Acts when the Philippian jailer asked him, "What must I do to be saved?"

Paul's answer....

Acts 16:31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

All you have to do with God is throw yourself on the mercy of the court and ask for forgiveness and God will grant it to you and you will have eternal life through Jesus.

You don't ever even have to darken the door of a church.

155 posted on 12/09/2012 6:35:49 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: Notary Sojac
Catholics don't get the en masse zot because, as it turns out, most of the folks running the joint are Catholics, and they are the best kind off Catholics ~ they are mostly Republicans ~ and all are Conservatives.

You know it had to eventually come to this ~ that we'd have Catholics and Protestants and Buddhists and Mormons together, sitting at the same table, figuring out how to convert the Democrats to freedom.

It's a hard job but somebody has to do it, and if not us who, and if not now, when?

177 posted on 12/09/2012 7:29:13 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: Notary Sojac
If I ever were to become a convert to Christianity, it would obviously be vital to my salvation to pick the right sect, and not mistakenly select one of all the others which are heretical.... .....but which is it????

The answer is quite simple but you must seek the response from God, not from man. The fact that you have posed the question means you have already stepped onto the path others have traveled before you. It is rife with ledges, hills, valleys, brambles and pitfalls but the true seeker is also an adventurer with a passion for the quest. Like Bilbo Baggins, one starts out reluctantly but is soon absorbed by those they encounter and what is learned along the way.

Insofar as describing yourself as an atheist, I can only smile (with a gleam in my eye) at what is about to unfold for you. Like Norma McCorvey, C S Lewis, Maggie Gallagher, Kirk Cameron, Bernard Nathanson and a host of others, the first step into the surf provokes a reaction, followed by a longing to take another dip. Here is a small tidbit of what you will discover.


History is full of men who have claimed that they came from God, or that they were gods, or that they bore messages from God - Buddha, Mohammed, Confucius, Christ, Lao-tze, and thousands of others, right down to the person who founded a new religion this very day. Each of them has a right to be heard and considered. But as a yardstick external to and outside of whatever is to be measured is needed, so there must be some permanent tests available to all men, all civilizations, and all ages, by which they can decide whether any of these claimants, or all of them, are justified in their claims. These tests are of two kinds: reason and history. Reason, because everyone has it, even those without faith; history, because everyone lives in it and should know something about it.

Reason dictates that if any one of these men actually came from God, the least thing that God could do to support His claim would be to pre-announce His coming. Automobile manufacturers tell their customers when to expect a new model. If God sent anyone from Himself, or if He came Himself with a vitally important message for all men, it would seem reasonable that He would first let men know when His messenger was coming, where He would be born, where He would live, the doctrine He would teach, the enemies He would make, the program He would adopt for the future, and the manner of His death. By the extent to which the messenger conformed with these announcements, one could judge the validity of his claims.

Reason further assures us that if God did not do this, then there would be nothing to prevent any impostor from appearing in history and saying, "I come from God," or "An angel appeared to me in the desert and gave me this message." In such cases there would be no objective, historical way of testing the messenger. We would have only his word for it, and of course he could be wrong.

If a visitor came from a foreign country to Washington and said he was a diplomat, the government would ask him for his passport and other documents testifying that he represented a certain government. His papers would have to antedate his coming. If such proofs of identity are asked from delegates of other countries, reason certainly ought to do so with messengers who claim to have come from God. To each claimant reason says, "What record was there before you were born that you were coming?"

With this test one can evaluate the claimants. Socrates had no one to foretell his birth. Buddha had no one to pre-announce him and his message or tell the day when he would sit under the tree. Confucius did not have the name of his mother and his birthplace recorded, nor were they given to men centuries before he arrived so that when he did come, men would know he was a messenger from God. But, with Christ, it was different. Because of the OT prophecies, His coming was not unexpected. There were no predictions about Buddha, Confucius, Lao-tze, Mohammed , or anyone else; but there were predictions about Christ. Others just came and said, "Here I am, believe me". Christ alone stepped out of that line saying, "Search the writings of the Jewish people and the related history of the Babylonians, Persians, and Romans." Even the pagan, Tacitus, speaking for the ancient Romans, says, "People were generally persuaded in the faith of the ancient prophecies, that the East was to prevail, and that from Judea was to come the Master and Ruler of the world." China had the same expectations, as did the Greeks.

Another distinguishing fact is that once He appeared, He struck history with such impact that He split it in two, dividing it into two periods: one before His coming, the other after it. Buddha did not do this, nor any of the great Indian philosophers. Even those who deny God must date their attacks upon Him, A.D. so and so, or so many years after His coming.

The story of every human life begins with birth and ends with death. In the Person of Christ, however, it was His death that was first and His life that was last. It was not so much that His birth cast a shadow on His life and thus led to His death; it was rather that the Cross was first, and cast its shadow back to His birth. His has been the only life in the world that was ever lived backward.


If the above resonates with you, drop me a freepmail. God speed on your journey; my prayers accompany you.

268 posted on 12/10/2012 7:43:58 AM PST by NYer ("Before I formed you in the womb I knew you." --Jeremiah 1:5)
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