Catholics, Protestants, and Immaculate Mary

The Catholic Thing ^ | December 8, 2012 | David G. Bonagura, Jr.

[CynicalBear]

You haven’t shown me from scripture where the RCC can prove the assumption of Mary.

[Elsie]

...the holy Catholic church...

Still posting error, and no other Catholics call him on it!

[narses]

"Which is true and addressed in the book of Hebrews."

Wrong. Again.

The English word "priest" is derived from the Greek word presbuteros, which is commonly rendered into Bible English as "elder" or "presbyter." The ministry of Catholic priests is that of the presbyters mentioned in the New Testament (Acts 15:6, 23). The Bible says little about the duties of presbyters, but it does reveal they functioned in a priestly capacity.

They were ordained by the laying on of hands (1 Tm 4:14, 5:22), they preached and taught the flock (1 Tm 5:17), and they administered sacraments (Jas 5:13-15). These are the essential functions of the priestly office, so wherever the various forms of presbuteros appear--except, of course, in instances which pertain to the Jewish elders (Mt 21:23, Acts 4:23)--the word may rightly be translated as "priest" instead of "elder" or "presbyter."

Episcopos arises from two words, epi (over) and skopeo (to see), and it means literally "an overseer": We translate it as "bishop." The King James Version renders the office of overseer, episkopen, as "bishopric" (Acts 1:20). The role of the episcopos is not clearly defined in the New Testament, but by the beginning of the second century it had obtained a fixed meaning. There is early evidence of this refinement in ecclesiastical nomenclature in the writings of Ignatius of Antioch (d. A.D. 107), who wrote at length of the authority of bishops as distinct from presbyters and deacons (Epistle to the Magnesians 6:1, 13:1-2; Epistle to the Trallians 2:1-3; Epistle to the Smyrnaeans 8:1-2).

The New Testament tendency to use episcopos and presbuteros interchangeably is similar to the contemporary Protestant use of the term "minister" to denote various offices, both ordained and unordained (senior minister, music minister, youth minister). Similarly, the term diakonos is rendered both as "deacon" and as "minister" in the Bible, yet in Protestant churches the office of deacon is clearly distinguished from and subordinate to the office of minister.

In Acts 20:17-38 the same men are called presbyteroi (v. 17) and episcopoi (v. 28). Presbuteroi is used in a technical sense to identify their office of ordained leadership. Episcopoi is used in a non-technical sense to describe the type of ministry they exercised. This is how the Revised Standard Version renders the verses: "And from Miletus he [Paul] . . . called for the elders [presbuteroi]of the church. And when they came to him, he said to them . . . 'Take heed to yourselves and all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you guardians [episcopoi], to feed the church of the Lord.'"

In other passages it's clear that although men called presbuteroi ruled over individual congregations (parishes), the apostles ordained certain men, giving them authority over multiple congregations (dioceses), each with its own presbyters. These were endowed with the power to ordain additional presbyters as needed to shepherd the flock and carry on the work of the gospel. Titus and Timothy were two of those early episcopoi and clearly were above the office of presbuteros. They had the authority to select, ordain, and govern other presbyters, as is evidenced by Paul's instructions: "This is why I left you in Crete . . . that you might appoint elders in every town as I directed you" (Ti 1:5; cf. 1 Tm 5:17-22).

From http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/where-in-the-new-testament-are-priests-mentioned

[Iscool]

The English word "priest" is derived from the Greek word presbuteros, which is commonly rendered into Bible English as "elder" or "presbyter." The ministry of Catholic priests is that of the presbyters mentioned in the New Testament (Acts 15:6, 23). The Bible says little about the duties of presbyters, but it does reveal they functioned in a priestly capacity.

Now there you go again...Just a little bit of research will show you that what you have posted is not the truth...Here is priest, in Greek...

ἱερεύς
hiereus
hee-er-yooce'
From G2413; a priest (literally or figuratively): - (high) priest.

Presbyter does NOT mean priest...And any reference in your post that refers to priest is flat out wrong...

Episcopos arises from two words, epi (over) and skopeo (to see), and it means literally "an overseer": We translate it as "bishop."

HaHaHa...You can translate it as ToothFairy but that doesn't change the real meaning any more than calling it a bishop...

[narses]

Wrong. Again.

[narses]

[Elsie]

And where are they now?

^{THIS bunch??}

 

^{Revelation 7:5-8}

⁵ From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,

from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,

from the tribe of Gad 12,000,

⁶ from the tribe of Asher 12,000,

from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,

from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,

⁷ from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,

from the tribe of Levi 12,000,

from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,

⁸ from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,

from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,

from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.

[Elsie]

That in response to me posting:

I pointed it out and you CHOOSE to ignore it.

...the holy Catholic church...

Still advancing error unrepentantly I see.

[metmom]

It’s obvious the struggle we have here is that the Catholics put the RCC over scripture. That’s evidenced by them using RCC “interpretations” and “explanations” ad nausea without consideration for what scripture really says. They post sources from the RCC as if that is scripture. It’s obvious to me that they indeed believe the RCC trumps scripture.

I'll stick with *It is written...* thankyouverymuch.

Psalm 119:11 I have stored up your word in my heart, that I might not sin against you.

Psalm 119:89 Forever, O Lord, your word is firmly fixed in the heavens.

Psalm 1:1-3 Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the wicked, nor stands in the way of sinners, nor sits in the seat of scoffers; 2 but his delight is in the law of the Lord, and on his law he meditates day and night.

3 He is like a tree planted by streams of water that yields its fruit in its season, and its leaf does not wither. In all that he does, he prospers.

[Elsie]

You stutter way too much, and vainly repeat things over and over.

Is being obnoxious the ONLY way you can get noticed here?

[CynicalBear]

And I have never had anyone from the Catholic Church show from scripture where the apostles demanded that the people they claimed were “saved” had to believe in the Holy Catholic Church for salvation either. That must be another one of those things the RCC took upon itself to go above scripture.

[Elsie]

Matthew tells us not to use VAIN repetitions. To do something in vain means, worthless, useless.

SOMEone ain't gettin' the message!

[Elsie]

No.

[Elsie]

Vanity, vanity.

All is vanity.

[metmom]

The Bible says little about the duties of presbyters, but it does reveal they functioned in a priestly capacity.

Absolutely not. It is not recorded ANYWHERE that they offer sacrifices on behalf of anyone.

The few examples he gives, like that of laying on of hands, is not a duty relegated to only priests.

[Elsie]

Just because Elsie does the pic thing does not mean that you need to follow suit.

Ha ha ha!

[CynicalBear]

So show him from a Greek lexicon where he is wrong. Is it Strong’s? Nope. NASEC? Nope. Thayer’s? Nope. All say Iscool is correct. You said he was “wrong again” so let’s see some proof.

[Elsie]

Vain...