Posted on 12/08/2012 2:24:39 PM PST by NYer
Do Catholics worship Mary? This question is as old as the Protestant Reformation itself, and it rests, like other disputed doctrinal points, on a false premise that has been turned into a wedge: the veneration of Mary detracts from the worship of Christ.
This seeming opposition between Mary and Christ is symptomatic of the Protestant tendency, begun by Luther, to view the entirety of Christian life through a dialectical lens – a lens of conflict and division. With the Reformation the integrity of Christianity is broken and its formerly coherent elements are now set in opposition. The Gospel versus the Law. Faith versus Works. Scripture versus Tradition. Authority versus Individuality. Faith versus Reason. Christ versus Mary.
The Catholic tradition rightly sees the mutual complementarity of these elements of the faith, as they all contribute to our ultimate end – living with God now and in eternity. To choose any one of these is to choose them all.
By contrast, to assert that Catholics worship Mary along with or in place of Christ, or that praying to Mary somehow impedes Christ’s role as “the one mediator between God and men” (1 Tim 2:5) is to create a false dichotomy between the Word made flesh and the woman who gave the Word his flesh. No such opposition exists. The one Mediator entrusted his mediation to the will and womb of Mary. She does not impede his mediation – she helps to make it possible.
Within this context we see the ancillary role that the ancilla Domini plays in her divine Son’s mission. Mary’s is not a surrogate womb rented and then forgotten in God’s plan. She is physically connected to Christ and his life, and because of this she is even more deeply connected to him in the order of grace. She is, in fact, “full of grace,” as only one who is redeemed by Christ could be.
The feast of Mary’s Immaculate Conception celebrates the very first act of salvation by Christ in the world. Redemption is made possible for all by his precious blood shed on the cross. Yet Mary’s role in the Savior’s life and mission is so critical and so unique that God saw it necessary to wash her in the blood of the Lamb in advance, at the first moment of her conception.
This reality could not be more Biblical: the angel greets Mary as “full of grace” (Luke 1:28), which is literally rendered as “already graced” (kecharitōmenē). Following Mary, the Church has “pondered what sort of greeting this might be” for centuries. The dogma of the Immaculate Conception, ultimately defined in 1854, is nothing other than a rational expression of the angel’s greeting contained in Scripture: Mary is “already graced” with Christ’s redemption at the very moment of her creation.
Because God called Mary to the unique vocation of serving as the Mother of God, it is not just her soul that is graced, as is the case for us when we receive the sacraments. Mary’s entire being, body and soul, is full of grace so that she may be a worthy ark for the New Covenant. And just as the ark of the old covenant was adorned with gold to be a worthy house for God’s word, Mary is conceived without original sin to be the living and holy house for God’s Word.
Thus Mary is not only conceived immaculately, that is, without stain of sin. She also is the Immaculate Conception. Her entire being was specifically created by God with unique privilege so that she could fulfill her role in God’s plan of salvation. “Free from sin,” both original and personal, is the necessary consequence of being “full of grace.”
Protestants claim that veneration of Mary as it is practiced by Catholics is not biblical. St. Paul encouraged the Corinthians to “be imitators of me, as I am of Christ” (1 Cor 11:1). Paul is not holding himself up as the end goal, but as a means to Christ, the true end. And if a person is imitated, he is simultaneously venerated.
If we should imitate Paul, how much more should we imitate Mary, who fulfilled God’s will to the greatest degree a human being could. Throughout her life she humbled herself so that God could be exalted, and because of this, Christ has fulfilled his promise by exalting his lowly mother to the seat closest to him in God’s kingdom.
Mary is the model of humility, charity, and openness to the will of God. She allows a sword to pierce her heart for the sake of the world’s salvation. She shows us the greatness to which we are called: a life free from sin and filled with God’s grace that leads to union with God in Heaven. She is the model disciple, and therefore worthy of imitation and veneration, not as an end in herself, but as the means to the very purpose of her – and our – existence: Christ himself.
God’s lowly handmaiden would not want it any other way.
You said:
All of the Lent and Easter abomination is pagan and God clearly condemned it in scripture.
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-religion/2686288/replies?c=6
-— If we agree that the Scriptures are Divinely inspired, which means “God-breathed”, and that they are the “ultimate” authority for our faith, then there should be no problem at all with recognizing what Jesus, the Apostles and the early church fathers attested to - the primacy, sufficiency and ultimate authority of Scripture. ——
Logically, Scripture can’t be the “ultimate authority for our faith,” since Scripture didn’t identity itself. Scripture was written, preserved, and canonized by human beings. If the people who wrote, preserved, and canonized Scripture were fallible in their efforts, then how could we trust Scripture to be inerrant and inspired?
Simply stated, the Church gave us Scripture. Fallible Church, dubious text and canon. Infallible Church, inerrant text and canon.
And of course, Jesus commanded us to take disputes to His Church, rather than Scripture.
None of this is meant to denigrate Scripture, which is indeed inspired by God, but merely to point out the necessary logical hierarchy.
___________________________________________________________________________________
Cyprian of Carthage (251 A.D.)
“The Lord says to Peter: ‘I say to you,’ he says, ‘that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church.’ . . . On him [Peter] he builds the Church, and to him he gives the command to feed the sheep [John 21:17], and although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single chair [cathedra], and he established by his own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. Indeed, the others were that also which Peter was [i.e., apostles], but a primacy is given to Peter, whereby it is made clear that there is but one Church and one chair. So too, all [the apostles] are shepherds, and the flock is shown to be one, fed by all the apostles in single-minded accord. If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he [should] desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church?” (The Unity of the Catholic Church 4; 1st edition [A.D. 251]).
Credo in Deum Patrem omnipotentem;
Creatorem caeli et terrae.
Et in Jesum Christum,
Filium eius unicum, Dominum nostrum;
qui conceptus est
de Spiritu Sancto,
natus ex Maria virgine;
passus sub Pontio Pilato,
crucifixus, mortuus, et sepultus;
descendit ad inferos;
tertia die resurrexit a mortuis;
ascendit ad caelos;
sedet ad dexteram Dei Patris omnipotentis;
inde venturus est
iudicare vivos et mortuos.
Credo in Spiritum Sanctum;
sanctam ecclesiam catholicam;
sanctorum communionem;
remissionem peccatorum;
carnis resurrectionem;
vitam aeternam. Amen.
In English:
I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ,
his only Son, our Lord.
He was conceived
by the power of the Holy Spirit,
and born of the Virgin Mary,
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
He descended into hell.
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
he will come again
to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy Catholic church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen
According to Scripture, the FIRST lie Satan told to Adam and Eve was:
Genesis 3:1-4 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”
So, Satan's first lie was to place doubt in Eve's mind about what God said. THEN, he contradicted God's word by telling her that God was the liar and not him:
The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’” “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
Thus we see the sly trick of changing the devil's purpose in deceiving Eve - and everyone else, if he can - is to cause doubt concerning God's word, whether or not we can trust what God says and NOT that the devil would want to reassure believers that they can trust God's words and promises.
It would be humorous, if it weren't so devious, that accusing others of worshiping "their Self Alone" because they place their trust in the Scriptures rather than sinful and fallible men who cannot save them, is really doing the same thing the devil did. So, who is placing themselves above Scripture? Those who hold to what God's infallible and authoritative word says or the ones who reject God's word in favor of smooth-talking, gilded robed men who whisper in their ears what they want to hear rather than what they NEED to hear? And what do fallen men want to hear? That they ARE good, that they CAN merit heaven, that they DESERVE to go to heaven when they die because of all the things they have done for God.
Who is the true "self-worshiper" then? Those who cling to the mercy and grace of God or those who boast of their own self-righteousness and rest in the mighty works they have done in His name? Here's a clue from our Lord:
Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. (Luke 18:10-14)
Hey metmom - see this - are you still defending this nonsense?
CynicalBear wrote:
http://www.lasttrumpetministries.org/tracts/tract1.html
Hey metmom - see this - are you still defending this nonsense?
CynicalBear wrote:
http://www.lasttrumpetministries.org/tracts/tract1.html
(Romans 10:2-4)
“For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth”.....”be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith” (Philippians 3:9)
Yo, mom!
“If the links to the posts are not forthcoming, then not a poster on this forum is under any obligation to believe any of them. They can be dismissed as slander and calumny.”
I posted the links, where are you?
So Mitch, do you agree with these views?
“All of the Lent and Easter abomination is pagan and God clearly condemned it in scripture.”
“God doesn’t smile down on people who celebrate Easter.”
Better keep that on hand, daniel, our FRoman Catholic friends have very short memories about these things and I don’t doubt very little time will pass before the “Luther Care” gets tossed back out there as if it is THE trump card to stifle all further discussion. ;o)
How much you wanna bet if you had replied to that post and not pinged the poster in your response, you would be tattled on to the Mod for breaking the “rules”?
Not 100% no.So what?
Maybe you should post a scriptural rebuttal to what CB said or quoted.
“Not 100% no.So what?”
What part do you agree with?
I’ll answer you after you post a scriptural rebuttal to what CB said or quoted.After all,you may unearth something I’ve not realized before.
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