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Catholics, Protestants, and Immaculate Mary
The Catholic Thing ^ | December 8, 2012 | David G. Bonagura, Jr.

Posted on 12/08/2012 2:24:39 PM PST by NYer

Do Catholics worship Mary? This question is as old as the Protestant Reformation itself, and it rests, like other disputed doctrinal points, on a false premise that has been turned into a wedge: the veneration of Mary detracts from the worship of Christ.

This seeming opposition between Mary and Christ is symptomatic of the Protestant tendency, begun by Luther, to view the entirety of Christian life through a dialectical lens – a lens of conflict and division. With the Reformation the integrity of Christianity is broken and its formerly coherent elements are now set in opposition. The Gospel versus the Law. Faith versus Works. Scripture versus Tradition. Authority versus Individuality. Faith versus Reason. Christ versus Mary.

The Catholic tradition rightly sees the mutual complementarity of these elements of the faith, as they all contribute to our ultimate end – living with God now and in eternity. To choose any one of these is to choose them all.

By contrast, to assert that Catholics worship Mary along with or in place of Christ, or that praying to Mary somehow impedes Christ’s role as “the one mediator between God and men” (1 Tim 2:5) is to create a false dichotomy between the Word made flesh and the woman who gave the Word his flesh. No such opposition exists. The one Mediator entrusted his mediation to the will and womb of Mary. She does not impede his mediation – she helps to make it possible.

Within this context we see the ancillary role that the ancilla Domini plays in her divine Son’s mission. Mary’s is not a surrogate womb rented and then forgotten in God’s plan. She is physically connected to Christ and his life, and because of this she is even more deeply connected to him in the order of grace. She is, in fact, “full of grace,” as only one who is redeemed by Christ could be.

The feast of Mary’s Immaculate Conception celebrates the very first act of salvation by Christ in the world. Redemption is made possible for all by his precious blood shed on the cross. Yet Mary’s role in the Savior’s life and mission is so critical and so unique that God saw it necessary to wash her in the blood of the Lamb in advance, at the first moment of her conception.

Called (from the series Woman) ©2006 Bruce Herman
  [oil on wood, 65 x 48”; collection of Bjorn and Barbara Iwarsson] For more information visit http://bruceherman.com

This reality could not be more Biblical: the angel greets Mary as “full of grace” (Luke 1:28), which is literally rendered as “already graced” (kecharitōmenē). Following Mary, the Church has “pondered what sort of greeting this might be” for centuries. The dogma of the Immaculate Conception, ultimately defined in 1854, is nothing other than a rational expression of the angel’s greeting contained in Scripture: Mary is “already graced” with Christ’s redemption at the very moment of her creation.

Because God called Mary to the unique vocation of serving as the Mother of God, it is not just her soul that is graced, as is the case for us when we receive the sacraments. Mary’s entire being, body and soul, is full of grace so that she may be a worthy ark for the New Covenant. And just as the ark of the old covenant was adorned with gold to be a worthy house for God’s word, Mary is conceived without original sin to be the living and holy house for God’s Word.

Thus Mary is not only conceived immaculately, that is, without stain of sin. She also is the Immaculate Conception. Her entire being was specifically created by God with unique privilege so that she could fulfill her role in God’s plan of salvation. “Free from sin,” both original and personal, is the necessary consequence of being “full of grace.”

Protestants claim that veneration of Mary as it is practiced by Catholics is not biblical. St. Paul encouraged the Corinthians to “be imitators of me, as I am of Christ” (1 Cor 11:1). Paul is not holding himself up as the end goal, but as a means to Christ, the true end. And if a person is imitated, he is simultaneously venerated.

If we should imitate Paul, how much more should we imitate Mary, who fulfilled God’s will to the greatest degree a human being could. Throughout her life she humbled herself so that God could be exalted, and because of this, Christ has fulfilled his promise by exalting his lowly mother to the seat closest to him in God’s kingdom.

Mary is the model of humility, charity, and openness to the will of God. She allows a sword to pierce her heart for the sake of the world’s salvation. She shows us the greatness to which we are called: a life free from sin and filled with God’s grace that leads to union with God in Heaven. She is the model disciple, and therefore worthy of imitation and veneration, not as an end in herself, but as the means to the very purpose of her – and our – existence: Christ himself.

God’s lowly handmaiden would not want it any other way.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: mary
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To: metmom

You have offended me personally. I told you, and kindly warned you. Now I ask God to carry this burden. That’s all. If you are perfect and righteous, then you have nothing to worry about. Judgement belongs to God. Happy New Year, God Bless.


3,521 posted on 12/31/2012 4:03:21 PM PST by mgist
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To: metmom

It’s called doublespeak.


3,522 posted on 12/31/2012 4:05:10 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear
"It’s called doublespeak."

There is a difference between someone's personal decisions, and someone's actions againsts others.

When someone sins against you, hurts you, offends you, the bible explains what should be done. Otherwise, it really shouldn't be any of your business.

3,523 posted on 12/31/2012 4:11:15 PM PST by mgist
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To: mgist
It appears that you neglected to post ALL the passage in Matthew 18. Here it is so it can be taken in context......

Matthew 18:15-35 15 “If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses.

17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18 Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 19 Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.”

21 Then Peter came up and said to him, “Lord, how often will my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? As many as seven times?” 22 Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you seven times, but seventy-seven times.

23 “Therefore the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his servants. 24 When he began to settle, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents. 25 And since he could not pay, his master ordered him to be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and payment to be made. 26 So the servant fell on his knees, imploring him, ‘Have patience with me, and I will pay you everything.’ 27 And out of pity for him, the master of that servant released him and forgave him the debt.

28 But when that same servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii, and seizing him, he began to choke him, saying, ‘Pay what you owe.’ 29 So his fellow servant fell down and pleaded with him, ‘Have patience with me, and I will pay you.’ 30 He refused and went and put him in prison until he should pay the debt. 31 When his fellow servants saw what had taken place, they were greatly distressed, and they went and reported to their master all that had taken place.

32 Then his master summoned him and said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 And should not you have had mercy on your fellow servant, as I had mercy on you?’ 34 And in anger his master delivered him to the jailers, until he should pay all his debt. 35 So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart.”

Matthew 5:38-48 38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39 But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41 And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42 Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48 You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Luke 11:1-4 One day Jesus was praying in a certain place. When he finished, one of his disciples said to him, “Lord, teach us to pray, just as John taught his disciples.”

2 He said to them, “When you pray, say:

‘Father, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come. 3 Give us each day our daily bread. 4 Forgive us our sins, for we also forgive everyone who sins against us. And lead us not into temptation.’”

God is about forgiveness. That seems to be a foreign concept to Catholics, who just can't seem to grasp that it is freely given and does not need to be earned, but it is true.

3,524 posted on 12/31/2012 4:12:19 PM PST by metmom ( For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom

3,525 posted on 12/31/2012 4:13:30 PM PST by narses
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To: mgist
You have offended me personally.

How? Making it personal is not permitted on the RF.

The RM has not reprimanded me for *making it personal* in any comment of mine to you. Where did I do that?

3,526 posted on 12/31/2012 4:14:59 PM PST by metmom ( For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: narses

Couldn’t find anything to cut and paste with no attribution?


3,527 posted on 12/31/2012 4:16:32 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: narses

What is my personal interpretation that you object to?

The posting of the Scripture?

Or the interpretation that God is about forgiveness?

Isn’t God about forgiveness?


3,528 posted on 12/31/2012 4:17:44 PM PST by metmom ( For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: mgist; CynicalBear
Tell me, what church do you go to?
CB has said clearly that he thinks ALL organized churches are in error. It appears he is the only and one sole high priest of his own interpretation of what we all ought to believe. He has said that Easter and Christmas are pagan and that Catholics are idolaters. Who knew? He claimed, and has since backtracked, that even the simple veneration of the Cross was idolatrous, he has also claimed that Sunday is not the correct day of worship. Very odd stuff, but then you have seen him in action. Judge for yourself.
3,529 posted on 12/31/2012 4:19:13 PM PST by narses
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To: metmom

Your interpretation and calumnies. Your false claims about Catholics.


3,530 posted on 12/31/2012 4:21:17 PM PST by narses
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To: CynicalBear

3,531 posted on 12/31/2012 4:22:11 PM PST by narses
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To: narses; mgist; metmom
>> Judge for yourself.<<

ROFLMA! Oh now that was good!!!!

3,532 posted on 12/31/2012 4:23:40 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: UriÂ’el-2012
"The fingerprints of the Father of all lies is on it."

I trust that you would know his work better than me, but the parish of Fatima was named after a Moorish princess, not the daughter of Mohamed.

It is interesting the extent that some will go to twist themselves into a pretzel trying to get unrelated facts to line up with their prejudices.

Peace be with you.

3,533 posted on 12/31/2012 4:23:40 PM PST by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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To: CynicalBear

The irony......


3,534 posted on 12/31/2012 4:24:17 PM PST by metmom ( For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: narses
Your interpretation and calumnies. Your false claims about Catholics.

Prove they're false.....

And then if you take offense at a generalized statement or a statement about what Catholics I grew up with did, that's not my problem.

I can't help it if it hits too close to home.

3,535 posted on 12/31/2012 4:27:03 PM PST by metmom ( For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom

No sale. You falsehoods have been shown many times and yet you continue to spout them. Your inability to accept the truth versus your claims has marginalized you.


3,536 posted on 12/31/2012 4:31:44 PM PST by narses
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To: narses

How does the Scripture that I posted that you replied to with your cereal box qualify as *interpretations*, *calumnies*, or false claims about Catholics?

I stated that God is about forgiveness,

You appear to object to that interpretation of that passage.

Is God about forgiveness or not?


3,537 posted on 12/31/2012 4:42:04 PM PST by metmom ( For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom

Are you as blind as you appear?

You claimed - “That seems to be a foreign concept to Catholics, who just can’t seem to grasp that it is freely given and does not need to be earned, but it is true.”

Again and again you misrepresent what the Church teaches. Then you claim that those who object are objecting to your random cut-n-paste scriptural fig leafs behind which you try and hide your calumnies about the Catholic beliefs.

You have been patiently shown your errors again and again. No more, you are entitled to nothing but scorn and contempt. And that you shall have.


3,538 posted on 12/31/2012 4:48:10 PM PST by narses
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To: narses; CynicalBear

If you objected to that statement, what was the purpose of posting the cereal box in response to Scripture?

I can sense the forgiveness just oozing out from the posts by Catholics directed towards non-Catholics. /s

It only verifies the impression I have received.


3,539 posted on 12/31/2012 4:55:58 PM PST by metmom ( For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom

Again you conflate scripture with your false - to - fact attacks on Catholic beliefs. It is contemptible.


3,540 posted on 12/31/2012 4:58:24 PM PST by narses
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