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Catholics, Protestants, and Immaculate Mary
The Catholic Thing ^ | December 8, 2012 | David G. Bonagura, Jr.

Posted on 12/08/2012 2:24:39 PM PST by NYer

Do Catholics worship Mary? This question is as old as the Protestant Reformation itself, and it rests, like other disputed doctrinal points, on a false premise that has been turned into a wedge: the veneration of Mary detracts from the worship of Christ.

This seeming opposition between Mary and Christ is symptomatic of the Protestant tendency, begun by Luther, to view the entirety of Christian life through a dialectical lens – a lens of conflict and division. With the Reformation the integrity of Christianity is broken and its formerly coherent elements are now set in opposition. The Gospel versus the Law. Faith versus Works. Scripture versus Tradition. Authority versus Individuality. Faith versus Reason. Christ versus Mary.

The Catholic tradition rightly sees the mutual complementarity of these elements of the faith, as they all contribute to our ultimate end – living with God now and in eternity. To choose any one of these is to choose them all.

By contrast, to assert that Catholics worship Mary along with or in place of Christ, or that praying to Mary somehow impedes Christ’s role as “the one mediator between God and men” (1 Tim 2:5) is to create a false dichotomy between the Word made flesh and the woman who gave the Word his flesh. No such opposition exists. The one Mediator entrusted his mediation to the will and womb of Mary. She does not impede his mediation – she helps to make it possible.

Within this context we see the ancillary role that the ancilla Domini plays in her divine Son’s mission. Mary’s is not a surrogate womb rented and then forgotten in God’s plan. She is physically connected to Christ and his life, and because of this she is even more deeply connected to him in the order of grace. She is, in fact, “full of grace,” as only one who is redeemed by Christ could be.

The feast of Mary’s Immaculate Conception celebrates the very first act of salvation by Christ in the world. Redemption is made possible for all by his precious blood shed on the cross. Yet Mary’s role in the Savior’s life and mission is so critical and so unique that God saw it necessary to wash her in the blood of the Lamb in advance, at the first moment of her conception.

Called (from the series Woman) ©2006 Bruce Herman
  [oil on wood, 65 x 48”; collection of Bjorn and Barbara Iwarsson] For more information visit http://bruceherman.com

This reality could not be more Biblical: the angel greets Mary as “full of grace” (Luke 1:28), which is literally rendered as “already graced” (kecharitōmenē). Following Mary, the Church has “pondered what sort of greeting this might be” for centuries. The dogma of the Immaculate Conception, ultimately defined in 1854, is nothing other than a rational expression of the angel’s greeting contained in Scripture: Mary is “already graced” with Christ’s redemption at the very moment of her creation.

Because God called Mary to the unique vocation of serving as the Mother of God, it is not just her soul that is graced, as is the case for us when we receive the sacraments. Mary’s entire being, body and soul, is full of grace so that she may be a worthy ark for the New Covenant. And just as the ark of the old covenant was adorned with gold to be a worthy house for God’s word, Mary is conceived without original sin to be the living and holy house for God’s Word.

Thus Mary is not only conceived immaculately, that is, without stain of sin. She also is the Immaculate Conception. Her entire being was specifically created by God with unique privilege so that she could fulfill her role in God’s plan of salvation. “Free from sin,” both original and personal, is the necessary consequence of being “full of grace.”

Protestants claim that veneration of Mary as it is practiced by Catholics is not biblical. St. Paul encouraged the Corinthians to “be imitators of me, as I am of Christ” (1 Cor 11:1). Paul is not holding himself up as the end goal, but as a means to Christ, the true end. And if a person is imitated, he is simultaneously venerated.

If we should imitate Paul, how much more should we imitate Mary, who fulfilled God’s will to the greatest degree a human being could. Throughout her life she humbled herself so that God could be exalted, and because of this, Christ has fulfilled his promise by exalting his lowly mother to the seat closest to him in God’s kingdom.

Mary is the model of humility, charity, and openness to the will of God. She allows a sword to pierce her heart for the sake of the world’s salvation. She shows us the greatness to which we are called: a life free from sin and filled with God’s grace that leads to union with God in Heaven. She is the model disciple, and therefore worthy of imitation and veneration, not as an end in herself, but as the means to the very purpose of her – and our – existence: Christ himself.

God’s lowly handmaiden would not want it any other way.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: mary
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To: metmom; Natural Law
NL  "I don't believe the Holy Spirit whispers 30,000+ different versions of the same message".

MM "So, just which verse of Scripture has 30,000 different interpretations?"

Over twenty eight hundred comments and the anti-Catholic crowd is still just evading, repeating their circular reasoning, their total fabrications, their deliberate distortions of the facts, and relying heavily on their favorite attempt at diversion :

If someone would substitute "verse" for "message" as if they're one and the same thing in order to avoid a valid point, they'd obviously substitute their preconceptions for what His Word says exactly the same way Eve did. Like Eve, such folks believe it is their own understanding that can make them like God, and like Eve they follow a convenient spirit rather than the Holy Ghost.

2,921 posted on 12/28/2012 9:09:49 PM PST by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: Natural Law
Catholic teaching can never contrary to Scripture. Scripture proceeded from Catholic teaching.

Who knew the Catholic church wrote the OT, the Jewish Scripture?

Perhaps you could inform us of how the Catholic church could write the OT before the Catholic church even existed. What a neat trick.

Or perhaps Moses was a Catholic and never realized it?

You do realize that claims like that cut into any credibility the Catholic church may make in its claims to own Scripture.

2,922 posted on 12/28/2012 9:14:02 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: Rashputin

The spirit of Quix lives on.

Taking up the standard, eh?


2,923 posted on 12/28/2012 9:17:56 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: Natural Law; metmom; CynicalBear
The Greek word Ecclesia, means those who are called and is synonymous with the Latin Vocare (to call) and the English vocation. The word is used extensively throughout the Septuagint as the translation of the Hebrew Qahal.

Although ekklesia soon became a distinctively Christian word, it has its own pre-Christian history; and to those, whether Jews or Greeks, who first heard it applied to the Christian society it would come with suggestions of familiar things. Throughout the Greek world and right down to New Testament times (compare Acts 19:39), ekklesia was the designation of the regular assembly of the whole body of citizens in a free city-state, "called out" (Greek ek, "out," and kalein, "to call") by the herald for the discussion and decision of public business. The Septuagint translators, again, had used the word to render the Hebrew qahal, which in the Old Testament denotes the "congregation" or community of Israel, especially in its religious aspect as the people of God. In this Old Testament sense we find ekklesia employed by Stephen in the Book of Acts, where he describes Moses as "he that was in the church (the Revised Version, margin "congregation") in the wilderness" (Acts 7:38). The word thus came into Christian history with associations alike for the Greek and the Jew. To the Greek it would suggest a self-governing democratic society; to the Jew a theocratic society whose members were the subjects of the Heavenly King. The pre-Christian history of the word had a direct bearing upon its Christian meaning, for the ekklesia of the New Testament is a "theocratic democracy" (Lindsay, Church and Ministry in the Early Centuries, 4), a society of those who are free, but are always conscious that their freedom springs from obedience to their King.

According to Matthew 16:18 the name ekklesia was first applied to the Christian society by Jesus Himself, the occasion being that of His benediction of Peter at Caesarea Philippi. The authenticity of the utterance has been called in question by certain critics, but on grounds that have no textual support and are made up of quite arbitrary presuppositions as to the composition of the First Gospel. It is true that Jesus had hitherto described the society He came to found as the "kingdom of God" or the "kingdom of heaven," a designation which had its roots in Old Testament teaching and which the Messianic expectations of Israel had already made familiar. But now when it was clear that He was to be rejected by the Jewish people (compare Matthew 16:21), and that His society must move on independent lines of its own, it was natural that He should employ a new name for this new body which He was about to create, and thus should say to Peter, on the ground of the apostle's believing confession, "Upon this rock I will build my church." The adoption of this name, however, did not imply any abandonment of the ideas suggested by the conception of the kingdom. In this very passage (Matthew 16:19) "the kingdom of heaven" is employed in a manner which, if it does not make the two expressions church and kingdom perfectly synonymous, at least compels us to regard them as closely correlative and as capable of translation into each other's terms. And the comparative disuse by the apostolic writers of the name "kingdom," together with their emphasis on the church, so far from showing that Christ's disciples had failed to understand His doctrine of the kingdom, and had substituted for it the more formal notion of the church, only shows that they had followed their Master's guidance in substituting for a name and a conception that were peculiarly Jewish, another name whose associations would enable them to commend their message more readily to the world at large.

III. Its Use in the New Testament.

1. In the Gospels:

Apart from the passage just referred to, the word ekklesia occurs in the Gospels on one other occasion only (Matthew 18:17). Here, moreover, it may be questioned whether Our Lord is referring to the Christian church, or to Jewish congregations commonly known as synagogues (see the Revised Version, margin) The latter view is more in keeping with the situation, but the promise immediately given to the disciples of a power to bind and loose (Matthew 18:18) and the assurance "Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them" (Matthew 18:20) are evidently meant for the people of Christ. If, as is probable, the ekklesia of Matthew 18:17 is the Christian ekklesia of which Christ had already spoken to Peter, the words show that He conceived of the church as a society possessing powers of self-government, in which questions of discipline were to be decided by the collective judgment of the members.

2. In Acts:

In Acts the ekklesia has come to be the regular designation for the society of Christian believers, but is employed in two distinct senses. First in a local sense, to denote the body of Christians in a particular place or district, as in Jerusalem (Acts 5:11; Acts 8:1), in Antioch (Acts 13:1; Acts 15:22), in Caesarea (Acts 18:22)-a usage which reappears in the Apocalypse in the letters to the Seven Churches. Then in a wider and what may be called a universal sense, to denote the sum total of existing local churches (Acts 9:31 the Revised Version (British and American)), which are thus regarded as forming one body.

3. In the Pauline Epistles:

In the Pauline Epistles both of these usages are frequent. Thus the apostle writes of "the church of the Thessalonians" (1 Thessalonians 1:1), "the church of God which is at Corinth" (1 Corinthians 1:2 2 Corinthians 1:1). Indeed he localizes and particularizes the word yet further by applying it to a single Christian household or to little groups of believers who were accustomed to assemble in private houses for worship and fellowship (Romans 16:5 1 Corinthians 16:19 Colossians 4:15 Philemon 1:2)-an employment of the word which recalls the saying of Jesus in Matthew 18:20. The universal use, again, may be illustrated by the contrast he draws between Jews and Greeks on the one hand and the church of God on the other (1 Corinthians 10:32), and by the declaration that God has set in the church apostles, prophets, and teachers (1 Corinthians 12:28).

But Paul in his later epistles has another use of ekklesia peculiar to himself, which may be described as the ideal use. The church, now, is the body of which Christ is the head (Ephesians 1:22; Colossians 1:18, 24). It is the medium through which God's manifold wisdom and eternal purpose are to be made known not only to all men, but to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places (Ephesians 3:9-11). It is the bride of whom He is the heavenly Bridegroom, the bride for whom in His love He gave Himself up, that He might cleanse and sanctify her and might present her to Himself a glorious church, a church without blemish, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing (Ephesians 5:25). This church clearly is not the actual church as we know it on earth, with its divisions, its blemishes, its shortcomings in faith and love and obedience. It is the holy and catholic church that is to be when the Bridegroom has completed the process of lustration, having fully "cleansed it by the washing of water with the word." It is the ideal which the actual church must keep before it and strive after, the ideal up to which it shall finally be guided by that Divine in-working power which is able to conform the body to the head, to make the bride worthy of the Bridegroom, so that God may receive in the church the glory that is His (Ephesians 3:21). (http://topicalbible.org/c/church.htm)

2,924 posted on 12/28/2012 9:27:11 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: Natural Law; CynicalBear

NL: “One is either in Communion with the Church or is not. There are no shades of gray.”

**********************************************************
The Catholic church begs to differ......

CCC: Those “who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church.”323 With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound “that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord’s Eucharist.”

. Even in the beginnings of this one and only Church of God there arose certain rifts,(19) which the Apostle strongly condemned.(20) But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions made their appearance and quite large communities came to be separated from full communion with the Catholic Church-for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame. The children who are born into these Communities and who grow up believing in Christ cannot be accused of the sin involved in the separation, and the Catholic Church embraces upon them as brothers, with respect and affection [except on FR]. For men who believe in Christ and have been truly baptized are in communion with the Catholic Church even though this communion is imperfect. DECREE ON ECUMENISM UNITATIS REDINTEGRATIO http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decree_19641121_unitatis-redintegratio_en.html

Domine Jesus: “On the other hand, the ecclesial communities which have not preserved the valid Episcopate and the genuine and integral substance of the Eucharistic mystery,61 are not Churches in the proper sense; however, those who are baptized in these communities are, by Baptism, incorporated in Christ and thus are in a certain communion, albeit imperfect, with the Church.”62 http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000806_dominus-iesus_en.html


2,925 posted on 12/28/2012 9:30:04 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom
LOL. Ho Ho Ho. Giggle, Giggle

And another diversion from the crowd who worship their own, Most High and Holy Self takes the field.

Notice how the point is ignored.

Notice how Self Worshipers project a preconception without so much as a nod to the FACT that "verse" and "message" are not one and the same.

Just like you can wait months for the Self Worshipers who demand their questions be answered to answer a question you ask, such Self Worshipers always substitute their own personal preconceptions for reality.

Which is exactly why such folks are destined to hear, "I never knew you" from the very same Jesus Christ they refuse to follow as they imitate Eve and follow a convenient spirit rather than the Holy Ghost.

2,926 posted on 12/28/2012 9:46:39 PM PST by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: CynicalBear; Natural Law
There is also the case where the Greek word "ekklēsia" just meant a gathering or throng of men assembled by chance, tumultuously as in Acts 19:32, 39 and 41 as well as in Hebrews 12:23, addressed to the "general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect". Same Greek word used 118 times in the New Testament.
2,927 posted on 12/28/2012 9:50:21 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: annalex; count-your-change; metmom
the Inquisition was dealing with Catholics or those pretending to be Catholics. It is an internal ecclesial court.

Just curious about your take on this "internal ecclesial court"...do you believe it had the power and right condoned by Jesus Christ to torture and give over to be executed those they condemned because of their supposed "heresies"? Do you believe it honors Christ to act in that fashion?

2,928 posted on 12/28/2012 9:57:17 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: metmom
"Or perhaps Moses was a Catholic and never realized it?"

Whomever was in a covanental relationship was in His Church. The New and Everlasting Covenant is with and through the Catholic Church, the New Israel.

Peace be with you

2,929 posted on 12/28/2012 10:06:32 PM PST by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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To: mgist

Why would I care what anyone but Christ says about what is and what isn’t a Christian? Why is his explanation not good enough for you? Rhetorical question because I’d now like to steal a line from you: Don’t post me!


2,930 posted on 12/28/2012 10:08:32 PM PST by bramps (Sarah Palin got more votes in 2008 than Mitt Romney got in 2012)
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To: Natural Law
That question denies an understanding of the hypostatic of Christ's humanity and divinity in one hypostasis. This too settled in support of the case against Nestorius at the First Council of Ephesus. This council recognised this doctrine and affirmed its importance, stating that the humanity and divinity of Christ are made one according to nature and hypostasis in the Logos. The divine nature of Jesus existed from before the beginning of time. The human nature of Jesus began when He was conceived by the Holy Spirit in Mary's womb.

That's what Nestorius and the rest of them were saying...The Divine nature of Jesus already existed and therefore Mary is not the mother of the Divine nature...Mary is not the Mother of God...Mary is the Mother of Jesus...

2,931 posted on 12/28/2012 10:10:47 PM PST by Iscool
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To: boatbums
"There is also the case......."

Of course, but it all comes down to interpretation and which meaning we choose, doesn't it? I'm satisfied with the one derived from the Traditions of the Church.

Peace and Blessings

2,932 posted on 12/28/2012 10:13:23 PM PST by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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To: Iscool
"That's what Nestorius and the rest of them were saying..."

No, it wasn't.

2,933 posted on 12/28/2012 10:21:27 PM PST by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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To: boatbums
Christ gave an unambiguous answer to your question, that his disciples would be known by the love they show among themselves. Torturing, burning, strangling fellow believers? It may be Catholic but certainly not Christian by any definition.
2,934 posted on 12/28/2012 11:33:37 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Iscool
" . . .Mary is not the Mother of God...Mary is the Mother of Jesus..."

John 10:30 I and the Father are one.

Once again, as is so often the case, the Self Alone folks contradict Scripture whenever it suits their Self Worship agenda.

2,935 posted on 12/29/2012 1:23:00 AM PST by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: annalex
I remind you that I ignore..

I tell you - that you don't remind me of anything - it is ever present how Catholicism, Mormonism, Islamism IGNORE Truth. People leave it for that reason. Catholics, like Luther, I and many many others have done, as did Mormons and Muslims. It Is WRITTEN, not everyone finds Truth; yet, it is there for everyone.

Rome/RCC and its subjects are still in angst over it though. I rejoice over it - the gates of hell did not prevail against HIS CHURCH as It IS WRITTEN.

When Jesus returns for His Family/His Body/Born Again Holy Spirit filled Believers the warnings are over. Then comes God's Wrath and the subjects of man made teachings and no teaching will now have KNOWLEDGE through experience (born again believers have it by faith) that God's Word is the FINAL Authority when it is TOO LATE. They NEVER sought the supernatural Faith to believe IT; only worldly faith (5 senses) in 'man' and what they can 'see' and 'understand'. They don't need The Spirit of God Faith for that/man made teachings. Man/pope says they belong to Mary, Mormons and Muslims belong to 'man', also.

Believers in JESUS ALONE belong to JESUS The Savior, Who always was and will be.

His Church is composed of born again Holy Spirit-filled Believers - just like Jesus said His Church/His Body of Believers is - as HE equipped us to READ and OBEY His Word and spread The Gospel! For It IS WRITTEN Our Faith is in JESUS ALONE, Our Savior. Praise GOD!

Ignore but I LOVE posting about my SAVIOR, my JESUS, The Word. He calls me friend and I'll shout it from the roof tops that I belong to HIM and no one can snatch me from His Hand for It is Written! Marantha! Amen! Come Lord JESUS! It's ALL about YOU, JESUS!

2,936 posted on 12/29/2012 1:27:31 AM PST by presently no screen name
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To: Natural Law
"3. Even in the beginnings of this one and only Church of God there arose certain rifts,(19) which the Apostle strongly condemned.(20) But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions made their appearance and quite large communities came to be separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame. The children who are born into these Communities and who grow up believing in Christ cannot be accused of the sin involved in the separation, and the Catholic Church embraces upon them as brothers, with respect and affection. For men who believe in Christ and have been truly baptized are in communion with the Catholic Church even though this communion is imperfect. The differences that exist in varying degrees between them and the Catholic Church - whether in doctrine and sometimes in discipline, or concerning the structure of the Church - do indeed create many obstacles, sometimes serious ones, to full ecclesiastical communion. The ecumenical movement is striving to overcome these obstacles. But even in spite of them it remains true that all who have been justified by faith in Baptism are members of Christ's body,(21) and have a right to be called Christian, and so are correctly accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church.(22)"

There are no grey areas, this text is referring to those outaide of the church. Our friend has the habit of falsly defining what she reads, and carefully editing messages from the church. Somebody really did a number non the poor things head, I can't help but find it creepy. I would never judge anyone for their faith. I judge her for her actions. How someone can have the conscience to be so deceptive, while using God's name is beyond me.

2,937 posted on 12/29/2012 3:19:18 AM PST by mgist
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To: Rashputin
" . . .Mary is not the Mother of God...Mary is the Mother of Jesus..."

John 10:30 I and the Father are one.

Once again, as is so often the case, the Self Alone folks contradict Scripture whenever it suits their Self Worship agenda.

Once again, you one hit (scripture verse) Catholic Wonders just make me giggle...So what's this, one of the 7 or 8 scriptures that your religion created itself on???

Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Matt 12:33 And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?
Mat 15:22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
Mat 20:30 And, behold, two blind men sitting by the way side, when they heard that Jesus passed by, cried out, saying, Have mercy on us, O Lord, thou son of David.
Mat 21:19 And the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest.

In these Scriptures it is clearly established that the nation of Israel expected their Messiah to come from the tribe of Judah and the house of David, thereby attributing fatherhood of the Messiah to David in accordance with their method of reckoning descent...But David cannot be called the father of God because of his relationship to the man Christ Jesus...Our Lord Himself rejected any possibility of that belief...

Mat 22:42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David.
Mat 22:43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
Mat 22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
Mat 22:45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
Mat 22:46 And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.

In these Scriptures, our Lord has done what Roman Catholic defenders say can not be done..He has clearly drawn a line between the human nature and the Divine nature of Jesus Christ...He has clearly established the fact that David is NOT the father of God, because he is NOT the father of the second person of the blessed trinity...

He has clearly shown this distinction of natures to be a mystery – one the Jews of His day could not comprehend any better than the Roman Catholics of the 21st century...This mystery of the two fused but separate natures found in Jesus Christ shows up in another reference in the following scripture from the Gospel of John...

John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him... Obviously God gave a full measure of the Holy Spirit to the human nature of Jesus since the Divine nature of Jesus is the second part of the Trinity...So the Holy Spirit that was given, we given only to the man Christ Jesus...

It should be obvious then, that like King David – to whom fatherhood ONLY of the man Christ Jesus is attributed by the Lord, Mary is the Mother ONLY of the man Christ Jesus...It can also be noted that Jesus did not say that he is the Son of God and Mary...

We can just as easily use Mary's name in place of David's to prove this point...

'While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, Saying, What think ye of Christ??? whose son is he??? They say unto him, The son of MARY...He saith unto them, How then doth MARY call him Lord, saying, My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour...(Luke 1:46, 47) If MARY then call him Lord, how is he her son??? And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions...'

Nestorius and the rest of the 'real' Christians that your false religion persecuted were right on the money...They had, knew and loved the scriptures long before your religion's council at Ephesus...

You got any more one hit wonders to Wow! us with???

2,938 posted on 12/29/2012 3:24:53 AM PST by Iscool
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To: presently no screen name

Amen!!!


2,939 posted on 12/29/2012 3:26:39 AM PST by Iscool
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To: presently no screen name
"Believers in JESUS ALONE belong to JESUS The Savior, Who always was and will be."


Sadly this website exposes, what the church of "believers in Jesus alone" have become. This is not a Catholic website that exposes some of the many PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN churches who claim "Jesus only, bible truth" and claim to be inspired by the Holy Spirit. Please be carefull, not everything that sounds right, is right.

http://www.spiritual-research-network.com/pseudochristiancults.html

Another Jesus

Armstrongism - Herbert W. Armstrong

Children of God/The Family

Christadelpians

Christian Family Fellowship (CFF)

Christian Science

Church of Religious Science

Church of Christ (Cambellites)

Harold Camping - FamilyRadio.Com, Family Ministries, Inc. [Books: 1994? and Time Has An End]

International Churches of Christ (ICOC) -

Jehovah's Witnesses & WBTS

Mind Sciences

Mormonism - The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

Oneness Pentacostals - Oneness, Jesus Only

Seventh-day Adventists

Snake Handlers

Spiritualist Churches

The Way International

Unification Church (Moonies)

Unitarian - Universalist Assoc.

Unity School of Christianity

Word Faith / Prosperity

Another Jesus

The Jesus of the Cults and Religions


Armstrongism (Herbert W. Armstrong)

Founder: Herbert W. Armstrong See also: Worldwide Church of God Garner Ted/Herbert W.

Children of God / The Family (aka: Family of Love, The Family International Fellowship; Fellowship of Independent Missionary Communities) Article - MacGregor Ministries Ex-members website - www.exfamily.org Children of God... Article Archive


Christadelphians Intro, Issues and Answers Page - CARM Article - Let Us Reason Article - MacGregor Ministries Top 10 Questions - Truth Eternal Website

Christian Family Fellowship (CFF)

Christian Family Fellowship - CARM

Christian Science

Church of Religious Science Religious Science: What Does it Teach? - Darkness to Light An Analysis of Religious Science Pt.1 - Darkness to Light An Analysis of Religious Science Pt.2 - Darkness to Light The Mind Sciences - Various Articles


Church of Christ (Cambellites) Doctrinal Errors of Campbellism E-mail response - The Bereans


Harold Camping (Family Ministries, Inc., FamilyRadio.Com, Family Radio (FR) Worldwide) Harold Camping Exposed As A False Prophet - Again!: Exposing False Prophet Harold Camping by Chris Lawson Camping said Sept. 6 1994 would end the tribulation period - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OT0Y2lxe00I Harold Camping’s Claim of Judgment Day May 21st Host: Vic Eliason, VCY America, 5/19/11 Another False Doomsday Predictions To Discredit Christians by David Bay, Cutting Edge Ministries, 5/19/11 Oops I Did It Again - The spread of Harold Camping's false mathematical prophecy by Mike Oppenheimer, 5/18/11 Can Harold Camping Go Any Lower [PDF] by John S. Torrell, 5/16/11 Lunacy Strikes Again: Harold Camping's Family Radio Is At It Once Again by Jacob Prasch, 5/8/11 Harold Camping Stikes (Out) Again! by Sandy Simpson, 12/4/10 Ready for Failure? The Further Prognostications of Camping Harold Camping, PFO Journal, Jul/Sep 1994, Vol. 14, NO. 3 Harold Camping's Heretical Hermeneutic, Midwest Christian Outreach Journal, Spring 2011, Vol. 17, NO.1, p.4-9, 18. Is Harold Camping and Family Radio a Cult? by Got Questions.org Harold Camping and May 21, 2011 - CARM [Matt Slick YOU TUBE video] Harold Camping: A Man With No Shame [PDF] by John S. Torrell Harold Camping's Heresies Exposed by David Stewart Harold Camping's Kingdom Hall by Jason Wallace


International Church of Christ (ICOC)


Alternate Name(s): - International Churches of Christ

- "Christian Advance"

- Campus Advance

- Alpha Omega

- Upside Down Club

- Campus Christian Movement

- Students Advocating Christianity Today

- "Hope On Campus"

- Aces Online

- ICC

- Boston Church of Christ

- Formerly: Boston Movement


International Churches of Christ -

Boston Church of Christ / International Church of Christ

International Church of Christ - Cult Expert Steve Hassan's Website -

Freedom of Mind Center

International Church of Christ - Rick Ross is an Expert on Exposing Cults and Cultic Movements

International Church of Christ - Cults.co.nz Dictionary of Cults and Spiritual Abuse

International Church of Christ - Apologetics Index [See the resources at this page too]

Internation Church of Christ Exposed - Cult Watch


http://www.icocinvestigation.com/2010/08/icoc-media-stories-from-the-past/

Jehovah's Witnesses (Watchtower Bible and Tract Society)


Mind Sciences


Mormonism (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints)

Christian Research Service Archive Extensive Overview and articles - CARM Utah Lighthouse Ministry - Website

Challenge of the Cults - Various Articles Various Articles - MacGregor Ministries Mormonism - Handbook of Todays Religions Which god do Mormons worship? - Mike Oppenheimer Why The LDS/Mormon Church Will NEVER Be Part Of The Body Of Christ - Sandy Simpson Mormonism - The Cult of Polytheism (CRS Archive) Mormonism - Evangelical / Mormon Dialogue Greg Johnson and Robert Millet Research Page Evangelical/Mormon Dialogue? Research Page

Oneness Pentacostals

Christian Research Service Archive Intro, Issues & Answers, Witnessing - CARM Challenge of the Cults - Various Authors UPC Archive - RRI Examining UPC - MacGregor Ministries UPC: Beliefs - www.spiritualabuse.org All About the UPC - www.spiritualabuse.org Oneness Pentecostals - The Cult of Modalism (CRS Archive) Seventh-day Adventists Online E-Book: What You Should Know - SDA Outreach Large Overview Various Articles - MacGregor Ministries 7th Day Adventism/Law Keepers Directory - Let Us Reason


Snake Handling Pentecostal Sects

Snake Handlers Archive - RRI


Spiritualism (Spiritualist Churches)

Spiritualism: Satan's Tool - Article Exposing Satan's Power Out From Darkness - Ben Alexander(Former Spiritualist) Spiritism Unmasked - W.E. Vine Spiritism/Occultism/Divination Articles Should Christians Use the Oija Board? Spiritualism, Seances, Spiritualist Churches - Dr. Dominguez

The Way International

Overview Overview - CARM Extensive Site - GreaseSpot Cafe Book: The Cult That Snapped - Karl Kahler Miscellaneous Articles - MacGregor Ministries

Unification Church (Moonies) Challenge of the Cults - Various Authors Unification Church Articles - Let Us Reason Rev. Sun Myung Moon - MacGregor Ministries Origins, Teachings, Publications - CARM Archive on Unification Church - RRI

Unitarian - Universalist Assoc.

Unitarian Universalist Faith Examining UUA - MacGregor Ministries What is Unitarianism - CARM Unitarian Universalism - Contender Ministires

Unity School of Christianity

Unity: Origins, Doctrines, Publications - CARM Challenge of the Cults - Various Authors Unity School - MacGregor Ministries

Word Faith / Prosperity (Cultic Heresies and Influences)

Benny Hinn - Everything You Need To Know

MinistryWatch.com Issues Donor Alert for Joyce Meyer Ministries - PDF

A Note About: TRINITY BROADCASTING NETWORK (TBN) AND GOD TV

The Trinity Broadcasting Network (TBN) and GOD TV both endorse and broadcast many Word Faith and Third Wave Signs and Wonders Movement teachings. We do understand that not everyone on TBN and GOD TV is teaching from this theological perspective, yet the majority are. Sadly, some people who teach sound doctrine have seen fit to associate themselves with these TV Networks. These TV networks clearly endorse false teaching and have been called to account countless times by sound discernment ministries. TBN and God TV still endorse false teaching. They claim to be Christian networks but they will not repent from the endorsement and global promotion unbiblical, blatantly anti-christ heresies! This is treason, in the name of Christ, against Almighty God. THIS CONFUSES COUNTLESS CHRISTIANS around the wolrd who wonder why the sound Bible teachers that are aired on these networks won't rebuke and call the networks to account. Why won't these Bible teachers disassociate themselves (and their ministries) from TV networks that promote unbiblical teachings.

The main problem is that the Word Faith Prosperity message and the teachers associated with it have fallen prey to the very subtle and at times very blatant heresies. These false teachings on TBN and GOD TV can clearly be found paralleled in the world of the Mind Science cults (See Mind Sciences; New Thought; E.W. Kenyon; Witchcraft). The 'Name It and Claim It' teachings and 'techniques' are essentially the same as 'the Force' found in the in the occult. Many of the charismania manifestations in these movements can be categorically refuted as Christian counterfeits. Some of them are even demonic in origin. Simply put, much that can be found on TBN and GOD TV can be seen in non-Christian cults and the occult. To deny this after seeing the evidence and examining the teachings would be delusion at best, insanity at worst.

If you are reading this and you believe that our assessment of the Word Faith and Third Wave teachings is untrue, we ask that you would read a number of discernment articles, WATCH the ONLINE VIDEO CLIPS and LISTEN to the ONLINE AUDIO FILES. The Bible is very clear about testing all things. Regardless of what teacher, evangelist, pastor or movement it is, if they decieve you don't say Jesus didn't wanr you. He said many would come in His name claiming to be the Christ (Christos), or 'Anointed'. These entire movements are centered around 'anointing' and some of the leaders have even claimed to be 'a god', 'God manifest in human flesh', 'a little messiah on the earth', etc. Take a look at our links and read the information. The Metaphysical psuedo-Christian cults such as Mind Science and New Thought influenced the early 'faith teachers'. Furthermore, countless aberrant and off-base Christian leaders have jumped on board TBN and GOD and have created what is known today as the Word Faith / Third Wave / Signs and Wonders Movements. Sadly, those who do not care enough to research the backgrounds of the Word Faith teachers they are listening to will be deceived. By not testing their teachings against sound Biblical theology, they will succumb the the Prince of Darknesses finest lies.

http://www.spiritual-research-network.com/pseudochristiancults.html

2,940 posted on 12/29/2012 4:12:46 AM PST by mgist
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