Posted on 12/08/2012 2:24:39 PM PST by NYer
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Is Peter the 'rock'?
As you can see, Simon was already known as 'Peter'
BEFORE the following verses came along.....
NIV 1 Corinthians 10:4
and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ. NIV Luke 6:48
He is like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built. NIV Romans 9:33
As it is written: "See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame." NIV 1 Peter 2:4-8
4. As you come to him, the living Stone--rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him-- 5. you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6. For in Scripture it says: "See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame." 7. Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, "The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone, " 8. and, "A stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall." They stumble because they disobey the message--which is also what they were destined for. But, since there WAS no NT at the time Christ spoke to Peter, just what DID Peter and the rest of the Disciples know about ROCKS??? NIV Genesis 49:24-25 24. But his bow remained steady, his strong arms stayed limber, because of the hand of the Mighty One of Jacob, because of the Shepherd, the Rock of Israel, 25. because of your father's God, who helps you, because of the Almighty, who blesses you with blessings of the heavens above, blessings of the deep that lies below, blessings of the breast and womb. NIV Numbers 20:8
"Take the staff, and you and your brother Aaron gather the assembly together. Speak to that rock before their eyes and it will pour out its water. You will bring water out of the rock for the community so they and their livestock can drink." NIV Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he. NIV Deuteronomy 32:15
Jeshurun grew fat and kicked; filled with food, he became heavy and sleek. He abandoned the God who made him and rejected the Rock his Savior. NIV Deuteronomy 32:18
You deserted the Rock, who fathered you; you forgot the God who gave you birth. NIV Deuteronomy 32:30-31
30. How could one man chase a thousand, or two put ten thousand to flight, unless their Rock had sold them, unless the LORD had given them up? 31. For their rock is not like our Rock, as even our enemies concede. NIV 1 Samuel 2:2
"There is no one holy like the LORD; there is no one besides you; there is no Rock like our God. NIV 2 Samuel 22:2-3
2. He said: "The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; 3. my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield and the horn of my salvation. He is my stronghold, my refuge and my savior-- from violent men you save me. NIV 2 Samuel 22:32
For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God? NIV 2 Samuel 22:47
"The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be God, the Rock, my Savior! NIV 2 Samuel 23:3-4
3. The God of Israel spoke, the Rock of Israel said to me: `When one rules over men in righteousness, when he rules in the fear of God, 4. he is like the light of morning at sunrise on a cloudless morning, like the brightness after rain that brings the grass from the earth.' NIV Psalms 18:2
The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge. He is my shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold. NIV Psalms 18:31
For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God? NIV Psalms 18:46
The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be God my Savior! NIV Psalms 19:14
May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be pleasing in your sight, O LORD, my Rock and my Redeemer. NIV Psalms 28:1
To you I call, O LORD my Rock; do not turn a deaf ear to me. For if you remain silent, I will be like those who have gone down to the pit.
NIV Psalms 31:2-3
2. Turn your ear to me, come quickly to my rescue; be my rock of refuge, a strong fortress to save me. 3. Since you are my rock and my fortress, for the sake of your name lead and guide me. NIV Psalms 42:9
I say to God my Rock, "Why have you forgotten me? Why must I go about mourning, oppressed by the enemy?" NIV Psalms 62:2
He alone is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will never be shaken. NIV Psalms 62:6
He alone is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will not be shaken. NIV Psalms 62:7
My salvation and my honor depend on God ; he is my mighty rock, my refuge. NIV Psalms 71:3
Be my rock of refuge, to which I can always go; give the command to save me, for you are my rock and my fortress. NIV Psalms 78:35
They remembered that God was their Rock, that God Most High was their Redeemer. NIV Psalms 89:26
He will call out to me, `You are my Father, my God, the Rock my Savior.' NIV Psalms 92:14-15
14. They will still bear fruit in old age, they will stay fresh and green, 15. proclaiming, "The LORD is upright; he is my Rock, and there is no wickedness in him." NIV Psalms 95:1
Come, let us sing for joy to the LORD; let us shout aloud to the Rock of our salvation. NIV Psalms 144:1
Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle. NIV Isaiah 17:10
You have forgotten God your Savior; you have not remembered the Rock, your fortress. NIV Isaiah 26:4
Trust in the LORD forever, for the LORD, the LORD, is the Rock eternal. NIV Isaiah 30:29
And you will sing as on the night you celebrate a holy festival; your hearts will rejoice as when people go up with flutes to the mountain of the LORD, to the Rock of Israel. NIV Isaiah 44:8
Do not tremble, do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago? You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one." NIV Habakkuk 1:12 O LORD, are you not from everlasting? My God, my Holy One, we will not die. O LORD, you have appointed them to execute judgment; O Rock, you have ordained them to punish. |
And now you know the Biblical position!
I'll continue to comment on threads I feel led to, don't expect to scare me away with hostility.
Then how 'bout bombasity? Smugness? a sense of Superiority?? Delusions of Adequacy???
God's covenant with the the symbolisim of the New Israel, meaning God's covenant offerred to His church, is VERY different than you saying that the church believes we "replaced the Nation of Israel".
I would suggest you do some research on your contention. From everything I can find the RCC believes that the covenants God made with Israel as a special nation is no longer in affect. They believe that the church has replaced Israel in all of God’s promises and covenants.
Just as the Old Testament is full of foreshadows of the New Testament (typology), Catholics believe the Bible is clear that the New Jerusalem of the Book of Revelation is not the historic city of Jerusalem. We do not believe that present day Israel is the same spiritual entity as the historic Israel before the time of Christ. After the crucifixion, the curtain of the Jewish sanctuary was torn in two (Mk 15:37-39, Lk 23:44-46, Mt 27:51) which was God tearing his cloths. At that point, a transfer of authority happened and we believe that the fledgling Church became the New Israel.
[http://www.davidmacd.com/catholic/why_did_the_catholic_church_move_to_rome_from_jerusalem.htm]
SAYING?
It pretty much looked like a QUOTE to me!
This site seems to do a good job of explanation of the church's position in layman's terms.
http://www.firstthings.com/article/2008/08/the-covenant-with-israel---42
"The people of the new covenant have a special spiritual bond with Abraham's stock, the council's Nostra Aetate insists. The Church gratefully recalls that she received the revelation of the Old Testament through the people of Israel. She is aware that, even though Jerusalem did not recognize the time of her visitation, and the Jews in large numbers have failed to accept the gospel, still, according to Paul, the Jews still remain most dear to God because of their fathers."
Nice try. Paul saying that “the Jews still remain most dear to God because of their fathers." Is not the same as the RCC position that Israel is no longer the “chosen” people of God”. I dare you to ask your priest if Israel is still the “chosen people of God” and that all covenants with them are still in affect. If he is honest about the RCC position he will admit that Israel as a people no longer hold that position but that the church does. BTW It’s not just the Catholic Church. It’s also most of the Protestant denomination that hold that position so if you think that was just against the Catholic Church guess again.
Sure it was.
I got some land to sell you in FL. Real nice waterfront property.
Honest.
And just how do you propose that? Return of the Inquisition?
Waiting to see you smacked down by any other Catholics on this forum......
Should be interesting reading through the rest of the following comments.
I’m not on narses’ ping list. I don’t get pings from her unless she’s responding to a post I made, which was the case in post 2,433 which you referenced.
I got pinged there because she was replying to me, not because I am on the list.
Try checking your facts before implying that I’m lying.
Angels are not omnipresent either.
They are obviously not bound by space and time but they are also created beings, thus meaning they are not omnipresent.
Makes sense to believe that.
No it doesn't.
Yes, and we do, as FourtySeven testifies. We have been photographed doing it:
There's no picture of a throne there. Just the inside of a Catholic church.
True believers don't need to go somewhere to *meet* God. We have God living within us.
1 Corinthians 6:19-20 19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, 20 for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.
Ephesians 3:14-19 14 For this reason I bow my knees before the Father, 15 from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named, 16 that according to the riches of his glory he may grant you to be strengthened with power through his Spirit in your inner being, 17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith—that you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 may have strength to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, 19 and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.
So every Catholic church has a throne of God in it?
Just how many thrones does God have then?
You didn't really just type that, did you?
Just.....
wow......
LOL And you will find if reading the posts that it’s been relegated to the back of the building too.
So, just which verse of Scripture has 30,000 different interpretations?
Pick just one. Any one.
Catholic church tradition has nothing to do with Jesus establishing the OT as Scripture.ROTFLMAO!
Catholic church tradition has nothing to do with Jesus establishing the OT as Scripture.ROTFLMAO!
Catholic church tradition has nothing to do with Jesus establishing the OT as Scripture.ROTFLMAO!
I have never asserted that each or any single verse of the there are 35,526 verses in the Roman Catholic are interpreted 30,000+ ways. That is a monumental strawman. What I have asserted is that every one of those 30,000+ denominations differ from all other on the meaning of at least one verse at any given point in time.
I understand your attempt to direct this back to me. The position of much of Protestantism is indefensible and it is an impossible position to disprove since each Protestant develops and holds his or her own interpretations and doctrines.
It is fair to say that the Pareto principle applies to Protestantism with 20% of the denominations containing 80% of all Protestants and the remaining 80% of denominations containing the remaining 20% of Protestants. If doctrinal differences were the only criteria for assessing the number of Protestant denominations the number of denominations would approach the number of Protestants whose governing principle is nothing more than Semper Gumby (always flexible).
Peace be with you
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