[RobbyS]

No, I don’t think the result is the same at all. Germany offers a safer environment than we do. That you don’t have to have the death penalty to achieve that result. Some German communities will be safer than others, and probably where there are a fewer per cent of Germans, or in communities where —paradoxically they people never lived lived under totalitarian government. Point: the death penalty is not necessary to achieve the desired result. Indeed, it is counterproductive where people are repelled by the very idea. What is necessary is to have a police force with adequate authority and adequate training and in sufficient numbers to do the job. What is necessary is a judicial system that spends its resources enforcing the right laws, and judges who will weigh the evidence relatively unbiased by political considerations. No the last is the greatest danger to a proper system. The europeanization of national laws, the attempt to force every community follower the predilections of the European elites, who have more In common with their peers across the border, ends up making things worse for the people.

[sitetest]

Dear RobbyS,

“No, I don’t think the result is the same at all. Germany offers a safer environment than we do.”

Not only did I not say otherwise, but I actually agreed on this point by way of stating that I attributed this more to culture than anything else:

“...but even if Germany had a less functional judicial system, I'd imagine that their crime rate (including violent crimes) would still be lower because, as you say, Germans are more rule-bound than Americans generally.”

I also haven't argued one way or the other as to whether Germany should have the death penalty; I only noted that we should continue to maintain it here.

Where we differ is not whether Germany has a lower crime rate or not. The first place where we differ is that you said it's because Germany keeps its murderers locked up. I've shown that Germany doesn't lock up its murderers anymore than the US. The US has a very high closure rate on crimes of murder, and a very high conviction rate for the crime of murder. In fact, generally speaking folks charged with felonies in the US have a conviction rate of 90%. Finally, the US has an average murder sentence served that is quite comparable to Germany's, perhaps even a bit harsher.

These are a couple of key performance indicators of a judicial system: Does it catch the bad guys? Does it keep the worst of them off the streets for long stretches? The US and Germany are comparable in these key performance indicators.

But clearly, as you mentioned, German culture is more rule-bound, and that is likely the primary driver of why German society has a lower crime rate.

sitetest