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To: Natural Law
"When you want to participate in an honest discussion get back to me. Until then, have a wonderful life."

How do you have an honest discussion with people who blaspheme the Holy Spirit by claiming the Holy Spirit leads them to teach as the Truth today the exact opposite of what they claim the Holy Spirit led them to teach as the Truth yesterday?

In spite of the pretense of relying on Scripture, the only thing that constantly comes through in all their arguments is their dedication to the declaration, "Non serviam"

Regards

96 posted on 11/06/2012 3:07:33 PM PST by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: Rashputin
"In spite of the pretense of relying on Scripture..."

Did you ever wonder why those who balk at the concept of an infallibile Magisterium become so indignant when anyone fails to accept their interpretations as absolute, final and inerrant? Even Satan quoted Scripture and no doubt those under his sway still do.

I am not saying that any party to these discussions is themselves evil, but the notion that Scripture must be manipulated and narrowly defined so as to substantiate and rationalize the Reformation is. That practices effectively reduces Scripture to the work of men, robbing it if its Divinity. That is exactly what was done to the other half of the Deposit of Faith by the reformation. Qui Bono, for whom the benefit? Certainly not God.

Peace be with you

97 posted on 11/06/2012 4:00:49 PM PST by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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To: Rashputin; Natural Law
How do you have an honest discussion with people who blaspheme the Holy Spirit by claiming the Holy Spirit leads them to teach as the Truth today the exact opposite of what they claim the Holy Spirit led them to teach as the Truth yesterday?

It is ironic that you can demonize some people by claiming they "blaspheme" the Holy Spirit by claiming He leads them to teach something as truth one day and then teach the exact opposite the next - yet you give NO example. It's ironic because that is EXACTLY what your Roman Catholic Church is guilty of doing many, many times. One glaring example is on this issue of "Purgatory".

Natural Law has described Purgatory in a way that implies no one really knows for sure what it is and, at best, it is a guess whether it even is a place or just a state of mind, whether it is instantaneous or can last thousands of years, whether it is physical agony or mental anguish. How's that for defining a dogma for you guys?

If you are aware, there is an "Apostolic Constitution" called INDULGENTIARUM DOCTRINA that dealt with Indulgences. It was released on 1 January 1967 by Pope Paul VI. Would this pass muster as binding on the Catholic faithful for their obedience of faith? Here's what it says:

    That punishment or the vestiges of sin may remain to be expiated or cleansed and that they in fact frequently do even after the remission of guilt(8) is clearly demonstrated by the doctrine on purgatory. In purgatory, in fact, the souls of those "who died in the charity of God and truly repentant, but before satisfying with worthy fruits of penance for sins committed and for omissions (9) are cleansed after death with purgatorial punishments. This is also clearly evidenced in the liturgical prayers with which the Christian community admitted to Holy Communion has addressed God since most ancient times: "that we, who are justly subjected to afflictions because of our sins, may be mercifully set free from them for the glory of thy name.(10)

    For all men who walk this earth daily commit at least venial sins;(11) thus all need the mercy of God to be set free from the penal consequences of sin.

    Following in the footsteps of Christ,(16) the Christian faithful have always endeavored to help one another on the path leading to the heavenly Father through prayer, the exchange of spiritual goods and penitential expiation. The more they have been immersed in the fervor of charity, the more they have imitated Christ in his sufferings, carrying their crosses in expiation for their own sins and those of others, certain that they could help their brothers to obtain salvation from God the Father of mercies.(17) This is the very ancient dogma of the Communion of the Saints,(18) whereby the life of each individual son of God in Christ and through Christ is joined by a wonderful link to the life of all his other Christian brothers in the supernatural unity of the Mystical Body of Christ till, as it were, a single mystical person is formed.(19)

    Thus is explained the "treasury of the Church"(20) which should certainly not be imagined as the sum total of material goods accumulated in the course of the centuries, but the infinite and inexhaustible value the expiation and the merits of Christ Our Lord have before God, offered as they were so that all of mankind could be set free from sin and attain communion with the Father. It is Christ the Redeemer himself in whom the satisfactions and merits of his redemption exist and find their force.(21) This treasury also includes the truly immense, unfathomable and ever pristine value before God of the prayers and good works of the Blessed Virgin Mary and all the saints, who following in the footsteps of Christ the Lord and by his grace have sanctified their lives and fulfilled the mission entrusted to them by the Father. Thus while attaining their own salvation, they have also cooperated in the salvation of their brothers in the unity of the Mystical Body.

    For this reason there certainly exists between the faithful who have already reached their heavenly home, those who are expiating their sins in purgatory and those who are still pilgrims on earth a perennial link of charity and an abundant exchange of all the goods by which, with the expiation of all the sins of the entire Mystical Body, divine justice is placated. God's mercy is thus led to forgiveness, so that sincerely repentant sinners may participate as soon as possible in the full enjoyment of the benefits of the family of God. (http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/apost_constitutions/documents/hf_p-vi_apc_19670101_indulgentiarum-doctrina_en.html)

It goes on of course, but it definitely states that Purgatory is a "place" where punishment for venial sins takes place and that there is a "treasury of merit" that, with the right price or prayer or deed, can be debited to another's account to speed up their time in Purgatory. That this dogma has "developed" over the centuries, was NEVER something taught by the Apostles, does NOT have the required "unanimous consent of the Fathers", does NOT have Scriptural warrant, I would say this pretty much qualifies for your category of "blaspheming the Holy Spirit" though I doubt you will consider it possible.

99 posted on 11/06/2012 7:46:04 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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