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To: Natural Law
The Church only states the truth that God permits you to condemn yourself. Further, you appear to not understand the meaning of obedience and faith.

Seriously, NL, that's the best you can do, presume I don't understand something? Your church states things IT thinks is the truth - sometimes God doesn't have anything to do with it.

There is therefore now no condemnation to them who are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (Romans 8:1)

73 posted on 11/03/2012 11:51:44 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums
Galatians 3:1-14 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. 2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? 4 Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith— 6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”?

7 Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” 9 So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” 11 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.” 12 But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— 14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.

15 To give a human example, brothers: even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified. 16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ. 17 This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. 18 For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.

19 Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary. 20 Now an intermediary implies more than one, but God is one.

21 Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law. 22 But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. 24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, 26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

Salvation has ALWAYS been by faith. Abraham was justified by faith before the Law was given.

The Pharisees were great at keeping the Law, Jesus never argued that, that they weren't, and yet they were clearly not saved according to Jesus own words, because their hearts were not right.

Religion does NOT save. Faith does.

No church saves, nor baptism, nor church membership, nor communion, nor last rites, nor ANY works that man would deign to replace the Law with. Jesus does.

If the Law given by God Himself from Mt. Sinai cannot save, then no replacement works dreamed up by man can save either.

Essentially, any religion which claims any of the above activities is necessary for salvation is saying that Jesus' death on the cross was not sufficient to save us, that our sin corrupted human effort must be added to the divinely carried out atonement.

What chutzpah. What a spitting in the face of God Himself, telling Him that the death of Jesus isn't good enough when He says it is. Clearly those saying so do not have trust in God as they think they must do something to help.

Galatians 2:20-21 20 I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.

I am already dead to sin and if Christ lives in me, then sending me to purgatory to be cleansed from my sin, would be sending Christ to suffer for my sin all over again.

Besides, the inconvenient fact keeps escaping Catholic's attention that *SUFFERING* does NOT cleanse us from sin. Only death, the shedding of blood, can do that, so suffering for unconfessed sin, is an exercise in futility. Teaching that suffering atones for sin is in complete contradiction to Scripture, no matter how much someone wants to rationalize it.

75 posted on 11/04/2012 1:04:31 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: boatbums
"Seriously, NL, that's the best you can do, presume I don't understand something?

Seriously, no. In response to your assertion that Catholics are mindless and do not know or desire to know God and the truth I merely suggested that it might be because you do not understand Catholicism. In light of your indignant response I am more convinced than ever that I was right. Perhaps you might understand better if you spent more time trying to know and understand God and less time trying to prove the Church wrong.

Peace be with you

78 posted on 11/04/2012 6:53:26 AM PST by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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