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To: Salvation

...and thus the need for the protestants to come up with lame reasons to get rid of this book, as luther did....it clearly points to praying for the souls of the dead.


24 posted on 11/02/2012 9:18:43 AM PDT by raygunfan
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To: raygunfan

I have not seen you before in the usually debates here, but you should know that Luther was not alone in his rejection of the apocrpha, (read http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/Ancients_on_Scripture.html#2).

As for using 2Mac. 12:40-45 to support purgatory, this is problematic as those who had offerings made for them were slain due to idolatry, a mortal sin, thus requiring RCAs to ex deny this was why they died, or postulating they may have repented at the last.

Moreover, the New Catholic Answer Bible, as well as my NAB on 12:42-46 states, “The statement is made here, however, only for the purpose of proving that Judas believed in the resurrection of the just (2 Mc 7,9. 14. 23. 36)....His belief was similar to, but not quite the same, as the Catholic doctrine of purgatory.”

“Not quite the same” is the only “doctrine” that this extra book can support is that of praying to the physically dead (and not to them), not for them to get out of purgatorial suffering and attain moral perfection.

Meanwhile, as shown, the clearest teaching of Scripture is that believers go to be with the Lord upon their demise here, or at the Lord’s return, which ever comes first.


28 posted on 11/02/2012 10:54:36 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: raygunfan; Salvation
People who claim to base what they believe on Scripture and nothing else not only believe things that directly contradict very clear Scripture, they also claim that something like contraception not being mentioned means that contraception is OK. But, poor things, they buy into the lie that Purgatory isn't based on Scripture.

Why do people believe “Scripture Alone" when the Bible clearly says, the church is the bulwark of the Faith, not Scripture?
Why do people believe “by faith alone” when the Bible clearly says, “not by faith alone”?
If that sort of trashing of His Word isn't enough, Purgatory is in Scripture but Luther threw out that portion along with others. So, there is only "Subset Alone" anyway, not really Scripture Alone as those who espouse it portray it since they don't even include all of the Scripture in their Bible.

Where in the subset of Scripture such folks do accept does it say Luther has the authority to throw out portions of Scripture?

Clearly, "Scripture Alone" is exactly the same sort of propaganda distortion as "Pro-Choice", a phrase fashioned to aid in a deliberate deception. It's a lie while based on only a subset of Scripture, and even if applied to the entirety of Scripture would be lie because the proponents contradict direct statements within Scripture whenever they please. They simply imitate Eve and Luther by changing His Word to suit themselves and get on with whatever they want to do. Weather that's eating forbidden fruit, throwing out portions of the Bible, or murdering their own children with contraceptives, they find a way to have Scripture agree with what they want to do.

"Scripture Alone" is the marketing trade name for the worship of "Self Alone", nothing more.

Half blind folks who stagger as they walk due to the immense weight of the huge beam in their own eye, but who claim that Purgatory is a mote in the eye of others, are just pitiful. Such folks are staggering around in their filthy rags claiming that they need only rely on their Self Alone are relying on them Self, not on Jesus Christ for their salvation.

33 posted on 11/02/2012 11:18:24 AM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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