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To: annalex

The Catholic religion is based on the fallacy that Jesus gave the 12 something that was not given to all believers, including us. They accomplish that by inferring, changing or taking scripture out of context to have Jesus teaching only the 12 when He is speaking to His disciples.

The obvious counter to that would be Pentecost. There were about 120 disciples including women. All were filled with the Holy Spirit.

Jesus mentions forgiving sin on several occasions. The only time he is specific is when Peter asked Him how many times, he Peter, has to forgive a brother who sins against him, Peter. Jesus tells Peter 70 X 7.

He goes on to explain that His Father cannot forgive Peter, or us, our sins against Him, The Father, if we don’t forgive a brother when they ask. We have to loose our sins so they are not bond in heaven.

I have asked, on several occasions, for any Catholic to provide me with specific scripture where Jesus gave Peter, or anyone else, the ability to forgive a man’s sin or sins against God for God. So far none has provided them. Would you be so kind?

Scripture states the penalty or penance for sin is spiritual death. The penance for sin for Catholics is 10 Hail Mary and 5 Our Fathers. Sounds like a good deal to me.

May God our Father lead us to His truth. BVB


140 posted on 10/30/2012 8:44:58 AM PDT by Bobsvainbabblings
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To: Bobsvainbabblings
The Catholic religion is based on the fallacy that Jesus gave the 12 something that was not given to all believers, including us.

He charged them with certain tasks: to teach all nations, baptize, offer the Eucharist, hear confessions (of which later, since you specifically asked). The scripture also mentions on a number of occasions that Christ taught the disciples but it does not say what He taught. But there is no secret teaching: whatever the disciples learned, whether committed to scripture or not, they are to teach the rest of us.

There were about 120 disciples including women. All were filled with the Holy Spirit.

True. Also see "Do penance (μετανοησατε), and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins: and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost" (Acts 2:38).

where Jesus gave Peter, or anyone else, the ability to forgive a man’s sin or sins against God for God [...?]

Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained. (John 20:23)

That is to the "disciples ... gathered together".

There are other passages that point to the exclusive character of priestly function: in Luke 22:19 those at the Last Supper are charged with giving the Eucharist that they just received, to others; in James 5:14 we see that a priest is to minister to sick people; in Acts 8:14-17 we see that Sts Peter and John confirmed a newly baptized Christian; In Timothy and Titus we see ordinations (imposition of hands of the priesthood) mentioned throughout.

the penalty or penance for sin is spiritual death. The penance for sin for Catholics is 10 Hail Mary and 5 Our Fathers

Penance is not penalty. The penalty for sin is indeed spiritual death; that penalty is lifted by Jesus Christ at the absolution given by the priest. Once the priest has given the absolution he assigns a penance, not to punish the sin but to build up the penitent's character against future sin. It is sometimes asked: -- What if I don't do the penance? and the answer is, the sin you confessed is still forgiven but if you did not do the penance willingly while able, you have incurred another sin, that of disobeying the instruction of the priest. Penances are light in the modern Church precisely not to create a confusion in the mind of people that you just expressed. However, if a crime is confessed, the priest would typically ask that restitution be made or the criminal turn himself to the police, -- so penances do not have to be light.

141 posted on 10/30/2012 5:32:32 PM PDT by annalex (fear them not)
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