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To: 1010RD; SZonian
Blessed are those who are pure in their hearts, for they shall see God.” [Aramaic in plain English]

For starters, this is greek translated into english 10. If anything it was probably in hebrew given the hebraism "for they shall see God" which signifies, possess God, enjoy his felicity: as seeing a thing, was used among the Hebrews for possessing it.

Secondly - 1 John 1: 8 and 10 state: 8* If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

additionally - Mt 15:19* For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

This applies even to smith - he could not be pure in heart

84 posted on 08/29/2012 7:12:35 PM PDT by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: Godzilla; SZonian

My Dear Gojira,

It isn’t. http://aramaic-plain-english.scripturetext.com/matthew/5.htm It is Aramaic the language of the common Jew at that time and the language Jesus spoke.

Your reply is ideal, though, because it points out a real truth: we complain oft about indoctrination of the school system through college, but neglect to complain about the same in the seminary system. Your “was probably in Hebrew” is nonsense as they spoke Aramaic. NB: you specifically sate “was probably”. A phrase without certitude. Your translaion of even the Hebrew is pure exegesis. One cannot want something true, it has to actually be true.

Furthermore, let’s accept what you say as true. The only conclusion to be then drawn is that the Bible is not the inerrant book readable by any layman, but one subject to interpretation by those intitiates who have been trained up in its proper interpretation. The average Christian cannot hope to understand it without esoteric knowledge. Again if the pastorate were a union we’d be laughing, but the seminary guild doesn’t have a lock on knowledge or interpretation. Gutenberg started it, but sites like Biblos guarantee it. Anyone can go there and read all the translations/interpretations they want including the original Hebrew, Greek and now Aramaic in context.

Next, parsing a verse here and there in a patchwork attempt to build an argument is to ignore the whole. Do I really need to revisit the many errors Christians have made in mistinterpreting the Bible by removing a passage from the context? Every translation is an interpretation subject to individual bias. We recognize it when Catholics do it, but why not when the Reformers do it, unless you are a Catholic defending your church? In either case it is self serving.

You see there is one circumstance where Joseph Smith and accurately any human being can be “pure in heart” or “of God”: when their sins are forgiven. Smith claims just this as part of his First Vision experience.

We know this is possible because the Bible tells us as much:

Woman caught in adultery - http://bible.cc/john/8-11.htm

Paralytic man - http://bible.cc/matthew/9-2.htm

The problem with the Anti-Mormon movement is that their arguments are so easily refuted. Yet, they persist not because of good scholarship, logic or facts, but because of a fervent belief that Mormons cannot be Chrisitian. If you so badly want to believe in something you’ll ignore all the counter arguments, facts and logic to simply believe what you want to believe. This has been true since the dawn of history as the story of Cain and Able prove and modern misinterpretation of the Bible confirms.

All arguments against the LDS as Christians fail except one - the Trinity. If the Trinity is the true nature of God and Jesus is a part of the Trinity, then Mormonism is not true. That’s it and it is the only argument that holds water. LDS apologists have repeatedly and effectively refuted the most serious issues in Mormon theology.

But, the Trinity is also the weakest argument by far. The Bible itself undermines it as a basic doctrine. The Biblical evidence by a vast preponderance is against a Trinitarian God and toward a more complex relationship between God the Father, His Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost. Particularly, that they are different, distinct and for two out of three exist in a glorified, but recognizably human body. Finally, we know from the Bible that even if the Trinity were the true nature of God it is not a necessary precondition to salvation. Without salvation then Christianity is simply a decent philosophy.

Therefore the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is Christian, Q.E.D.


85 posted on 08/30/2012 4:59:42 AM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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