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To: Persevero
"I briefly confused Tyndale (murdered for his Bible translation and distribution) with Wycliffe."

"It was not the Catholic Church that execute Tyndale, but the Church of England after Tyndale said that the king's divorce was unbiblical.

St. Thomas More commented that searching for errors in the Tyndale Bible was similar to searching for water in the sea. Protestant Bishop Tunstall of London, certainly no friend of the Catholic Church, declared that there were upwards of 2,000 errors in Tyndale's Bible. Tyndale translated the term baptism into "washing;" Scripture into "writing;" Holy Ghost into "Holy Wind," Bishop into "Overseer," Priest into "Elder," Deacon into "Minister;" heresy into "choice;" martyr into "witness;" evangelist into "bearer of good news;" etc., etc. Many of his footnotes were vicious. For instance, Tyndale referred to the occupant of the Chair of Peter, as "that great idol, the whore of Babylon, the anti-Christ of Rome."

But most offensive and heretical was the Prologue which specifically attacked Church doctrines and teachings. His most fatal flaw was secular. In his rants he opposed rule by divine right and claimed that true power and rightful ownership of riches were for the "elect" (of which he just happened to be a prominent member).

In 1530, Tyndale wrote The Practyse of Prelates, opposing Henry VIII's divorce on the grounds that it was unscriptural and was a plot by Cardinal Wolsey to get Henry entangled in the papal courts. This resulted in the king's wrath being directed at him: he asked the emperor Charles V to have Tyndale apprehended and returned to England. Eventually, Tyndale was betrayed to the authorities. He was seized in Antwerp in 1535, betrayed by Henry Phillips, and imprisoned for 16 months in the castle of Vilvoorde near Brussels. He was tried on a charge of heresy in 1536 and sentenced to death by the Holy Roman Empire. The heresy that he was charged with was opposing the head of the Church of England - Henry VIII, not the Pope or the Catholic Church. Tyndale's final words, spoken "at the stake with a fervent zeal, and a loud voice", were reported as "Lord! Open the King of England's eyes."

"To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant" - Blessed John Henry Newman (Former Protestant)

Peace be with you

74 posted on 08/08/2012 9:46:16 AM PDT by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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To: Natural Law

Natural Law, I stand with the martyrs (unworthily, but I’m there).

The blood cries out. The persecution and murders can not be denied. The RC church should confess it and repent of it and move on. I do not hate Catholics, and I don’t think the majority of Catholics today would support such behavior. It does no one any service, least of all the RC church, to try to obfuscate it or say it doesn’t count because PBS references it in a documentary; or because articles on wiki reference it.

I am not going to pretend the persecutions, Inquisition, and burnings at stakes etc. did not happen.

The martyrs deserve better than that.


79 posted on 08/08/2012 12:48:09 PM PDT by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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To: Natural Law; Salvation

As to the Blessed Henry Newman, and his observations about learning from history, I recommend to him Foxe’s Book of Martyrs, an excerpt here from chapter IV, but one can read many accounts of the persecution of Christians by the Pope at the considered time, very awful, sustained, and bloody horror:

“Thus far our history of persecution has been confined principally to the pagan world. We come now to a period, when persecution under the guise of christianity, committed more enormities than ever disgraced the annals of paganism. Disregarding the maxims and the spirit of the gospel, the papal church, arming herself with the power of the sword, vexed the church of God and wasted it for several centuries, a period most appropriately termed in history, the “dark ages.” The kings of the earth, gave their power to the “beast,” and submitted to be trodden on by the miserable vermin that often filled the papal chair, as in the case of Henry, emperor of Germany. The storm of papal persecution first burst upon the Waldenses in France.

Persecution of the Waldenses in France.

Popery having brought various innovations into the church, and overspread the christian world with darkness and superstition, some few, who plainly perceived the pernicious tendency of such errors, determined to show the light of the gospel in its real purity, and to disperse those clouds which artful priests had raised about it, in order to blind the people, and obscure its real brightness.

The principal among these was Berengarius, who, about the year 1000, boldly preached gospel truths, according to their primitive purity. Many, from conviction, assented to his doctrine, and were, on that account, called Berengarians. To Berengarius succeeded Peter Bruis, who preached at Thoulouse, under the protection of an earl, named Hildephonsus; and the whole tenets of the reformers, with the reasons of their separation from the church of Rome, were published in a book written by Bruis, under the title of Anti-Christ.[54]

By the year of Christ 1140, the number of the reformed was very great, and the probability of its increasing alarmed the pope, who wrote to several princes to banish them from their dominions, and employed many learned men to write against their doctrines.

A. D. 1147, Henry of Thoulouse, being deemed their most eminent preacher, they were called Henericians; and as they would not admit of any proofs relative to religion, but what could be deduced from the scriptures themselves, the popish party gave them the name of apostolics. At length, Peter Waldo, or Valdo, a native of Lyons, eminent for his piety and learning, became a strenuous opposer of popery; and from him the reformed, at that time, received the appellation of Waldenses or Waldoys.

Pope Alexander III being informed by the bishop of Lyons of these transactions, excommunicated Waldo and his adherents, and commanded the bishop to exterminate them, if possible, from the face of the earth; and hence began the papal persecutions against the Waldenses.

The proceedings of Waldo and the reformed, occasioned the first rise of the inquisitors; for pope Innocent III. authorized certain monks as inquisitors, to inquire for, and deliver over, the reformed to the secular power. The process was short, as an accusation was deemed adequate to guilt, and a candid trial was never granted to the accused.

The pope, finding that these cruel means had not the intended effect, sent several learned monks to preach among the Waldenses, and to endeavour to argue them out of their opinions. Among these monks was one Dominic, who appeared extremely zealous in the cause of popery. This Dominic instituted an order, which, from him, was called the order of Dominican friars; and the members of this order have ever since been the principal inquisitors in the various inquisitions in the world. The power of the inquisitors was unlimited; they proceeded against whom they pleased, without any consideration of age, sex, or rank. Let the accusers be ever so infamous, the accusation was deemed valid; and even anonymous informations, sent by letter, were thought sufficient evidence. To be rich was a crime equal to heresy; therefore many who had money were accused of heresy, or of being favourers of heretics, that they might be obliged to pay for their opinions. The dearest friends or nearest kindred could not, without danger, serve any one who was imprisoned on account of religion. To convey to those who were confined, a little straw, or give them a cup of water, was called favouring of the heretics, and they were prosecuted accordingly. No lawyer dared to plead for his own brother, and their malice even extended beyond the grave; hence the bones of many were dug up and burnt, as examples to the living. If a man on his death-bed was accused of being a follower of Waldo, his estates were confiscated, and the heir to them defrauded of his inheritance; and some were sent to the[55] Holy Land, while the Dominicans took possession of their houses and properties, and, when the owners returned, would often pretend not to know them. These persecutions were continued for several centuries under different popes and other great dignitaries of the catholic church.”

Foxe’s Book of Martyrs is a long book, and historically authentic, and despite it perhaps being referenced on wikipedia or perhaps even public television, should be given the utmost credence.

Learn from history, indeed. We all should.


80 posted on 08/08/2012 12:58:27 PM PDT by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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