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To: boatbums; stfassisi; daniel1212
"It is easy enough to recognize, both in society as well as in the Church community, that the threat of "personal excommunication" contains no teeth by which such a state is to be feared."

This is yet another schizophrenic argument by anti-Catholics. Out of one side of your mouths you mischaracterize and complain about the Inquisition bore that 500 years after the fact and then out of the other side of your mouths you mischaracterize and complain about the Church not conducting high profile and wide ranging trials of Catholics to see if they are Catholic enough all the while protesting that the eventual earthly punishments are not severe enough. Do you really expect anyone to believe that you have standing in this issue other than pharisean or that this was the reason you failed as a Catholic? It seems to me you would be protesting a more judgmental Church even more forcefully.

Peace be with you

70 posted on 07/08/2012 4:59:50 PM PDT by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave us a Bible, He left us a Church.)
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To: Natural Law; daniel1212
This is yet another schizophrenic argument by anti-Catholics. Out of one side of your mouths you mischaracterize and complain about the Inquisition bore that 500 years after the fact and then out of the other side of your mouths you mischaracterize and complain about the Church not conducting high profile and wide ranging trials of Catholics to see if they are Catholic enough all the while protesting that the eventual earthly punishments are not severe enough. Do you really expect anyone to believe that you have standing in this issue other than pharisean or that this was the reason you failed as a Catholic? It seems to me you would be protesting a more judgmental Church even more forcefully.

Oh, dear NL, must EVERYTHING be so melodramatic? Perhaps in your effort to neutralize whatever criticism is earned by the actions or in-actions of the hierarchy of the Roman Catholic religion, you have totally missed the point! The point has been all along that the Catholic Church has NEVER seemed to get church discipline correct and I believe it speaks to the lie that they claim to be THE church of Jesus Christ. It seem this church has teetered between two extremes almost since its inception and, rather than follow scriptural guidelines for how to deal effectively with church discipline, they have become schizophrenic. At one time it was kill all the "heretics" or "enemies of the Church" and now it is the one big tent policy where those who were at one time counted as apostates and schismatics are now welcomed with open arms in a clumsy attempt at "ecumenicalism" and "peace". Maybe if they would go back to Scripture and follow the actions prescribed by the Apostles, they could get it right for once.

You mistake my criticism as "my" expectation of how the Catholic Church SHOULD treat its people and you call it schizophrenic that I complain about the horrors of the Inquisitions while also complaining that the Church is not strict enough today. But, you see, that is NOT at all what I am getting at. What it boils down to, and which I doubt many in the Catholic Church will ever to come realize, is this is just ANOTHER example of so very many that the religion that boastfully claims exclusivity to the name of Christ and that says it ALONE is the ONE, TRUE, CHURCH established by Jesus Christ is no such thing at all. The true church, the real Body of Christ would NOT have conducted itself in this way. It proves that the true church of Jesus Christ is and always has been a SPIRITUAL union made up of individual believers that are and always will be the "wheat" that can be separated from the chaff. The "sheep" will have always been sheep and always different than the goats. The Shepherd knows his sheep and THEY KNOW HIM and they hear HIS voice and will not follow another. And He gives to them eternal life and they shall NEVER perish.

This is why I could not remain in nor return to Catholicism. The truth is no longer there if it ever was there - though I have to believe it must have been at some point - truth has to exist before there is a lie. It's probably a good idea to leave the pseudo-phsychiatry to the professionals rather than try to glean motives behind every comment someone makes. Mine are clear and not anything I have ever sought to hide. It is that Christ has set us free - His yoke is easy and His burden is light and we will find rest for our souls. I want all people to understand the Gospel of the grace of God that all who believe on Christ will have everlasting life and they do not have to be in bondage to a religious system that metes out grace like some kind of frequent shopper points.

In him and through faith in him we may approach God with freedom and confidence. (Ephesians 3:12)

85 posted on 07/08/2012 9:41:11 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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