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To: daniel1212

“there are two baptisms, water baptism and Spirit baptism”

~ ~ ~

Here is infant baptism:

Acts 2:38-39
But Peter said to them: Do penance, and be baptized EVERY ONE OF YOU in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins: and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. [39] For the promise is to you, and to your CHILDREN, and to all that are far off, whomsoever the Lord our God shall call.

daniel, you speak of “spirit baptism”, are you talking about the not very old (should be a hint) Protestant term “Born Again?”

Jesus explains “Born Again” to Nicodemus, water is the physical sign, it is required. Where is the “water” in the Protestant “Born Again?”

John 3:5
Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

[5] UNLESS A MAN BE BORN AGAIN: By these words our Saviour hath declared the necessity of baptism; and by the word water it is evident that the application of it is necessary with the words. Matt. 28. 19.

http://www.drbo.org/

Read further...What did Jesus do, He went out and baptized.

[22] After these things Jesus and his disciples came into the land of Judea: and there he abode with them, and baptized


85 posted on 06/30/2012 11:42:59 AM PDT by stpio
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To: stpio; daniel1212

Infant baptism can only be assumed from Scripture, not confirmed by it.


86 posted on 06/30/2012 12:42:10 PM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slav)
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To: stpio; daniel1212

“Read further...What did Jesus do, He went out and baptized.”

Read still further...his disciples baptized with water. Jesus did not. John 4:1 - “Now when Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus was making and baptizing more disciples than John (although Jesus himself did not baptize, but only his disciples)...”

It also takes twisting that would make the Chief Justice proud to say that Acts 2:39 is a reference to infant baptism!

Born again:

“3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”

5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”

Jesus gave the explanation in his next sentence. Born of water is not a reference to water baptism, but breaking water - physical birth. And “That which is born of the flesh is flesh”. To enter heaven, you need a second birth, because “that which is born of the Spirit is spirit”.

When Jesus told Nicodemus that he needed to be born again, Nic tried to make it a second physical birth, and Jesus rebuked him. You need TWO births - physical and spiritual. The first is of the flesh, the second is of the spirit.


89 posted on 06/30/2012 12:59:01 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (Liberalism: "Ex faslo quodlibet" - from falseness, anything follows)
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To: stpio
"But Peter said to them: Do penance, and be baptized EVERY ONE OF YOU in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins: and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. [39] For the promise is to you, and to your CHILDREN, and to all that are far off, whomsoever the Lord our God shall call." As the official RC Bible (for America) says, Peter [said] to them, “Repent and be baptized,* every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the holy Spirit." You are deriving more from Acts 2:38,39 than it supplies, for besides there being no command to do acts of penance in addition to baptism in order to receive the promise (and which was received by believers before baptism in Acts 10), what it refers to is the promise of the Holy Spirit, which in context here is received through repentance and faith as expressed in baptism. In no place is a promise given of the Holy Spirit apart from repentant faith, while acts which correspond to repentance are what results from repentance, as metanoeō refers first to a change of heart/mind, resulting in a change in action. Thus, while faith and repentance are two sides of the same coin, and while souls do obey some light they have received prior to conversion, yet in preaching the gospel to souls convicted of sin, righteousness and judgment (Jn. 16:9), as in Acts 2, the call was not to do a series of works in order to receive the Holy Spirit, but to believe with a faith that is expressed. Thus Paul preached, "But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judæa, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance. " (Acts 26:20) As for Jn. 3:5, see my comments on Acts 10 as relates to that. If Jn. 3:5 refers to baptism, then it cannot be an absolute literal imperative necessity in order to be born again.
94 posted on 06/30/2012 2:54:38 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a damned+morally destitute sinner,+trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: stpio

Lets try that again without that bit of html code that slipped in.

“But Peter said to them: Do penance, and be baptized EVERY ONE OF YOU in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins: and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. [39] For the promise is to you, and to your CHILDREN, and to all that are far off, whomsoever the Lord our God shall call.”

As the official RC Bible (for America) says, Peter [said] to them, “Repent and be baptized,* every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the holy Spirit.”

You are deriving more from Acts 2:38,39 than it supplies, for besides there being no command to do acts of penance in addition to baptism in order to receive the promise (and which was received by believers before baptism in Acts 10), what it refers to is the promise of the Holy Spirit, which in context here is received through repentance and faith as expressed in baptism.

In no place is a promise given of the Holy Spirit apart from repentant faith, while acts which correspond to repentance are what results from repentance, as “metanoeo” refers first to a change of heart/mind, resulting in a change in action.

Thus, while faith and repentance are two sides of the same coin, and while souls do obey some light they have received prior to conversion, yet in preaching the gospel to souls convicted of sin, righteousness and judgment (Jn. 16:9), as in Acts 2, the call was not to do a series of works in order to receive the Holy Spirit, but to believe with a faith that is expressed.

Thus Paul preached, “But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judæa, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance. “ (Acts 26:20) As for Jn. 3:5, see my comments on Acts 10 as relates to that. If Jn. 3:5 refers to baptism, then it cannot be an absolute literal imperative necessity in order to be born again.


98 posted on 06/30/2012 3:50:38 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a damned+morally destitute sinner,+trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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