Shouldn't 'faith' be capitalized since it obviously refers to the RC version of 'the faith'? If you sense disdain, it because this contradicts what the Scriptures say regarding faith. Since faith as Christ refers to it as like a child's, juvenile is not pejorative.
Were you baptized Roman Catholic? Fallen away Catholic are terribly bitter. You can come home.
Having covered this ground before, it is obvious that listening isn't a strong suit.
The remark about transubstantiation, you’ve said this before? What’s left, Lutherans believe a change takes place -consubstantiation-, but it isn’t possible, Lutherans have no priesthood.
The presented statement is rife with error, not the least of which concerns consubstantiation. Even a cursory review would show this isn't the case, but some refuse to investigate, and continue the error of what one has been taught. Confessional Lutherans believe that the Body and Blood of Christ is truly present 'in, with and under the bread and wine', by the virtue of the power of God's Word when consecrated. God's Word provides the power and reflects what Our Lord said at the Last Supper. Lutherans aren't compelled like some to explain this process, because we have God's promise in Scripture that it occurs. The 'how' isn't important. As for priesthood, all believers in Christ are priests. 1Pet2: 4-10 from the first 'pope' no less. Complaints therefore should be forwarded to St Peter. The public ministry is responsible for seeing that the Sacrament is administered correctly.
You can’t have the Eucharist without Transubstantiation.
So spaketh the RC church. I note the lack of Scripture reference.
Geee, a pin-point naming it rebuttal.
I have no idea what this means, so it lacks persuasiveness
Old Testament, the Gospel and present day prophecy are specific. Satan hates the Real Presence, it’s going to happen, the “abomination of desolation.” The Eucharist is true, come to believe everyone, don’t be prideful, foolish to mock and disbelieve.
Yes the abomination of desolation is going to occur among the activities of the Anti-christ. Laying aside the lame present day prophecy which adds nothing, is it the RC position that the activities of the Anti-christ are outside of the purview of the will of God? Is it the view of the RC that the Anti-christ will not unwittingly and unwillingly act in accordance with God's will?
As to the present day prophecy provided: Very lame effort. Using Scripture to provide bullet points surrounding RC doctrine as if they are one and the same, or that such references support the doctrinal statements. I note the inclusion of Luke 15:16, the verse's only apparent purpose is to remind the listener that the prodigal son wanted to eat the pig's food, but wasn't allowed. What a great use of Scripture! Worse, is the use of parentheses as if Jesus can not speak authoritatively in a cogent way and has to 'nudge' just in case one doesn't 'get' the message.
continuous sacrifice offered up
Christ died once for all, Rom 6:9-11, there is no continuing sacrifice for a believer in Christ. His death was all sufficient.
I love all. Jesus”
While absolutely true, didn't the the receiver know he was talking to 'Jesus'? So the message had to be signed? No P.S.? Beyond lame, and I apologize, but lame, weak etc are the only vernacular that applies here. The attempt to pass this off as 'prophecy is an offense to real prophets. See the major prophets of the OT and tell me that this is comparable. Jonah's four word prophecy shames this multi-hundred word RC cold cut.
Then it is the responsibility of the individuals to cooperate with this grace
Of course, man's work (cooperation) must be included if God's Grace is to be realized. More piffle.
It’s not easy to reply when posts are taken apart sometimes one sentence at a time and a paragraph in response follows. It might be okay one at a time, then, wait for an answer but a list, it is daunting to come back. And another problem with a list, one sentence at a time, what the first person says gets taken out of context.
Someone at FR reminds me, we are all at different levels
of understanding. It’s true. The message from Our Lord
in 06 I shared gave me an “understanding” of the “continual sacrifice” and the “abomination of desolation.”
Here is another example to show you, a well known Catholic apologist...Scott Hahn was a Calvinist, Presbyterian, anti-Catholic minister. He passed out anti-Catholic literature! Well, Truth about the faith began to unfold, He recognized them for himself and changed in belief.
I share a link to his story, take the time and read it.
Here’s an excerpt:
http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0088.html
“Then all of a sudden an episode occurred one night in a seminar I wasn’t ready for. An ex-Catholic graduate student named John raised his hand. He had just finished a presentation for the seminar on the Council of Trent. The Council of Trent, you’ll recall, was the Church’s official response to Martin Luther and the Reformation.
In about an hour and a half he had presented the Council of Trent in the most favorable light. He had shown how many of their arguments were in fact based on the Bible. Then he turned the tables on me. The students were supposed to ask him a question or two. He said, “Can I first ask you a question, Professor Hahn?
You know how Luther really had two slogans, not just sola fide, but the second slogan he used to revolt against Rome was sola Scriptura, the Bible alone. My question is, ‘Where does the Bible teach that?’”
I looked at him with a blank stare. I could feel sweat coming to my forehead. I used to take pride in asking my professors the most stumping questions, but I never heard this one before. And so I heard myself say words that I had sworn I’d never speak; I said, “John, what a dumb question.” He was not intimidated. He look at me and said, “Give me a dumb answer.” I said, “All right, I’ll try.” I just began to wing it. I said, “Well, Timothy 3:16 is the key: ‘All Scripture is inspired of God and profitable for correction, for training and righteousness, for reproof that the man of God may be completely equipped for every good work....’” He said, “Wait a second, that only says that Scripture is inspired and profitable; it doesn’t say ONLY Scripture is inspired or even better, only Scripture’s profitable for those things. We need other things like prayer,” and then he said, “What about 2 Thessalonians 2:15?” I said, “What’s that again?” He said, “Well, there Paul tells the Thessalonians that they have to hold fast, they have to cling to the traditions that Paul has taught them either in writing or by word of mouth.” Whoa! I wasn’t ready. I said, “Well, let’s move on with the questions and answers; I’ll deal with this next week. Let’s go on.”
I don’t think they realized the panic I was in. When I drove home that night, I was just staring up to the heavens asking God, why have I never heard that question? Why have I never found an answer? The next day I began calling up theologians around the country, former professors. I’d ask them, “Where does the Bible teach Sola Scriptura? Where does the Bible teach us that the Bible is our only authority?” One man actually said to me, “What a dumb question coming from you.” I said, “Give me a dumb answer then.” I was catching on.
One professor whom I greatly respect, an Oxford theologian, said to me, “Scott, you don’t expect to find the Bible proving Sola Scriptura because it isn’t something the Bible demonstrates. It is our assumption; it is our presupposition when we approach the Bible.” That struck me as odd; I said, “But professor, that seems strange because what we are saying then is that we should only believe what the Bible teaches, but the Bible doesn’t teach us to only believe what the Bible teaches. Our assumption isn’t taught by the Bible.” I said, “That feels like we’re cutting off the branch that we’re sitting on.” Then he said, “Well what other options do we have?” Good point, all right.”...
“Christ died once for all, Rom 6:9-11, there is no continuing sacrifice for a believer in Christ. His death was all sufficient.”
~ ~ ~
Hi, trying to help non-Catholics understand the Holy Mass, the Remnant is Roman Catholic...the more we talk about the Mass, the more you will come to see. Jesus wants us all to believe the same. Trust, He can make it happen.
Protestants believe Jesus is the “eternal high priest” and
that Jesus is the “Lamb of God”...so...
“While the OT sacrifices were insufficient, Jesus, the Unblemished LAMB, became the perfect, efficacious and eternal Sacrifice which atoned for all the sins of humanity. He did this once, for all, 2000 years ago on Calvary.
He has no need, as did the high priests, to offer sacrifice day after day, first for his own sins and then for those of the people; he did that once for all when he offered himself.-Hebrews 7:27
Catholics are NOT RE-SACRIFICING Christ again, but are participating in the once for all sacrifice. “At Mass, we do not sacrifice Christ over and over again. That is ridiculous. Rather, the Mass is a participation in the once for all sacrifice of Christ. It is NOT a REPRESENTATION of Christ’s once for all sacrifice, but a re-presentation. Each time we go to Mass, we become part of that once for all sacrifice with all eternity! That’s powerful! The Catechism of the Catholic Church, number 1368, says this,
“Christ’s sacrifice present on the altar makes it possible for all generations of Christians to be united with his offering.” (source here)
In other words, there is, so to speak, a “time warp” going on at each and every Mass. We are “transported” to the foot of Calvary in order to participate in the “once for all” eternal sacrifice of our Savior. How magnificent a gift is it that we are given the privilege to participate in the only event that that ever really mattered!! In the Eucharist the Church is as it were at the foot of the cross with Mary, united with the offering and intercession of Christ. Catechism-1370.
Apologist Jimmy Akin does not espouse this “time warp” metaphor, but nevertheless presents it in this article as a viable way for Catholics to understand how the Mass can be a sacrifice.
Finally, “Protestants have no qualms accepting the perfect and efficacious nature of Christ’s sacrifice, but invite them to consider its eternal aspect. Jesus is eternally a priest, and a priest’s very nature is to offer sacrifice. In the case of Christ, the eternal sacrifice that he offers is himself. This is why he appears in the book of Revelation as a LAMB, standing as though he had been slain (Rev. 5:6). He appears in heaven in the state of a victim not because he still needs to suffer but because for all eternity he re-presents himself to God appealing to the work of the cross, interceding for us (Rom 8:34), and bringing the graces of Calvary to us.
The Mass is a participation in this ONE heavenly offering. The risen Christ becomes present on the altar and offers himself to God as a living sacrifice. Like the Mass, Christ words at the Last Supper are words of sacrifice, “This is my body . . . this is my blood . . . given up for you.” So, the Mass is not repeating the murder of Jesus, but is taking part in what never ends: the offering of Christ to the Father for our sake (Heb 7:25, 9:24).
After all, if Calvary didn’t get the job done, then the Mass won’t help. It is precisely because the death of Christ was sufficient that the Mass is celebrated. It does not add to or take away from the work of Christ—it is the work of Christ.”