Who has a better relationship with God? Obama or Romney?
Who has a better relationship with God? Obama or Romney?
- - - - -
Neither. Both believe and follow false gods.
Well who is anybody to know the exact relationship with God a given person has...???
But I can say with certainty that the given god of the Mormons is NOT the same God of the Bible.
How do we know this?
Let's look at who Mormons say their "god" is:
Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie:
"According to [Mormon] revelation...
...he is a...
personal Being
a holy and exalted Man
a glorified, resurrected Personage [news flash: The Mormon god they pray "Our Father" to died at some point before the Mormon Jesus became his son]
having a tangible body of flesh and bones [I guess the apostle John was wrong, eh, about God being Spirit -- see John 4:23-24]
an ANTHROPOMORPHIC ENTITY,
the personal Father of the spirits of all men [this last means there's a mom-god @ Kolob w/whom this God had sex with to yield your spirit before you came to earth]
Source: Mormon Doctrine, 1966, p. 250
I mean, come now: Who wants an anthropomorphic entity --a man-made religion about a man who made his godhood level by landing the "god job" -- whose divinity didn't precede His anthro aspects?
Mitt Romney is a direct descendent of Parley P. Pratt, a Mormon "apostle." Mitt Romney's ancestor taught:
"Gods, angels, and men are all of
one species,
one race,
one great family,
widely diffused among the planetary systems as colonies, kingdoms, nations, etc.
Source: The Key to the Science of Theology, 1978, p. 21
So what? Why should Romney be linked to what his ancestors taught? Well, because Romney himself provided such a linkage!
Mitt Romney, Dec, 2007, speaking @ the George Bush Presidential Library: "I believe in my Mormon faith and I endeavor to live by it. My faith is the faith of my fathers – I will be true to them and to my beliefs.
Mormon "theology" that essentially says the Mormon man-gods & man-angels bounce around the universe and thereby arrive on planet earth as essentially aliens. And Mitt "confesses" and "professes" this as the "faith...of my fathers - I will be true to them and to my beliefs."
Lds "apostle" John Widtsoe originally published in 1915 called Rational Theology.
Widtsoe in that book slandered God, reducing him to be of slime and then mortal origins:
"God and man are of the same race..." (Widtsoe, p. 61)
How else can we tell that the Mormon god is distinct from THE God of the Bible?
(1) LDS "Apostle" Bruce McConkie wrote, "The Father is a glorified, perfected resurrected, exalted man who worked out his own salvation by obedience to the same laws he has given to us so that we may do the same" (A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, pg. 64).
As somebody once pointed out...Notice McConkie's use of the word "resurrected" and the phrase, "worked out his salvation." Only those who die can be resurrected, and only those who are lost need salvation.
Bottom-line here:
Mormon leaders have taught that Heavenly Father needed "salvation!" And, since death came due to sin (either your own, or in Jesus' case, someone else's), whose sin caused Heavenly Father to die, Mormons? Whose sin was around that prompted his death? His own?
Also, please note another aspect of this Lds "apostle's" claim: He said Heavenly Father is a "perfected...exalted man." Interesting. Why did He say "perfected" -- vs. "perfect? This Lds "apostle" claimed Heavenly Father needed a spiritual makeover and needed to be perfectED!!!
(I guess that shows you what kind of sinner-saved god Mormons REALLY embrace!!!)
(2) What other Lds general authority comment supports the notion that Lds worship a sinner-saved god?
Well, after B.H. Roberts, the next "deep theologian" to fill the ranks of Mormonism was Lds "apostle" James E. Talmage.
Here's how Talmage weighed in on this: "...but though the Son is glorified with the glory of the Father, you can't change the fact that He is the Son of that Father,
and that Father,
the Eternal Father,
the Father of Jesus Christ,
the Father of His spirit
and the Father of His body,
was once a Man,
and has progressed,
not by any favor but by the right of CONQUEST OVER SIN,
and over death,
to His present position of priesthood and power,
of Godship and Godliness,
as the Supreme Being whom we all profess to worship"
(James E. Talmage, Conference Reports, April 1915, p. 123).
So there ya go! Talmage says the Mormon god "progressed...to His present position of...Godship". He got the "godship" job! And how did he manage that? Well he won via a "Conquest over sin"!!!!!!!!!!!!! (and death)
Hmmm...the Mormon elohim was a sinner!!!! (says a prominent Lds "apostle" still repeatedly cited by the Mormon church and by Mormon leaders)
Per the Mormon Journal of Discourses: "God our Heavenly Father was perhaps once a child, and mortal like we are, and rose step by step in the scale of progress, in the school of advancement; has moved forward and overcome, until He has arrived at the point where He now is" (Lds "apostle" Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses 1:123).
So. Mormon leaders have stated that Elohim (God the Father), as a mortal on some distant planet similar to Earth, went through the same struggles as present-day humans in order to obtain his Godhood. In the words of LDS Apostle Orson Hyde, "God our Heavenly Father was perhaps once a child, and mortal like we are," HYDE is claiming GOD (our Heavenly Father) was mortal like we are. To be consistent, HYDE is claiming mortality for GOD, so it would have to include "a sinful nature".
Well, again, we know from history that mortality was provoked by things having to do with a tree. In the book of Genesis, it was rebellion (sin) by picking fruit from a forbidden tree. And for Jesus, it was donning a tree (the cross) to pay for the fruit of Adam & Eve's sin passed down throughout mankind. So sin was linked to mortality somehow -- either thru direct sin or indirectly taking on the sin of others.
So, again, if the Mormon elohim was mortal, why? Was it his sin -- or that of another?
Other Lds leaders even elaborated a bit beyond that: "The doctrine that God was once a man and has progressed to become a God is unique to this Church. How do you feel, knowing that God, through His own experience, 'knows all that we know regarding the toils [and] sufferings' of mortality?" (Brigham Young, Teachings of the Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young, p. 34, brackets in original)
So Brigham claimed the Mormon god knows all about the "toils & sufferings" of mortality from firsthand experience!!!
And another Lds "apostle," Orson Whitney, emphasized that "Mormonism teaches that God was once just like ourselves; that the eternal part of Him was enshrined in mortal flesh, subject to mortal ills and earthly pains and toils." (Orson F. Whitney, May 6, 1892, Collected Discourses 3:45)
So perhaps the "best" way for us to describe the Mormon god, per their "apostles," is to first ask Mormons to describe themselves, since Whitney says he "was once JUST LIKE OURSELVES!" That not only includes mortal flesh, but mortal ills. (And guess what prompted mortal ills?) That's right, sin.
(3) Finally, consider what two other Lds "apostles" claimed:
"God and man are of the same race, differing only in their degress of advancement" (John A. Witdsoe, Rational Theololgy, 1915, p. 61)
Wow!!!
And: "Gods, angels, and men are all of one species, one race, one great family, widely diffused among the planetary systems as colonies, kingdoms, nations, etc." (Parley P. Pratt, The Key to the Science of Theology, 1978, p. 21)
The official current Lds church leadership republished an older book in 1987 by a well-respected (internally well-respected) Lds "apostle" named James Talmage...
This "apostle" -- and by extension the current Mormon church which republishes his books as "official doctrine" -- rules out the God of the Bible as non-existent if he does not have body parts:
"We affirm that to deny the materiality of God's person is to deny God; for a thing without parts has no whole, and an immaterial body cannot exist. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints proclaims against the incomprehensible God, devoid of 'body, parts, or passions,' as a thing impossible of existence..."
The Articles of Faith, p. 48 James Talmage published by The Church of JC of Latter-day Saints, 1987
BHO's relationship is with allah.
Romney's relationship is with godS.