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To: HarleyD

HarleyD:

You obviously are not comprehending Council of Trent as nowhere does it teach salvation by works, that is what you want to believe but it is false. Trent in no way contradicted the Fathers of the Church as its view of justification are in line with St. Thomas Aquinas, who is the lens thru which most of Trent was articulaed in and Aquinas was in line with Augustine.

As for your view of the Atonement, St. Anselm as a “Catholic” born in Italy and sent to England by the Pope. His theory of the atonement is legitimate but not to the exclusion of others. As the article you linked also clearl points out that any theory of Atonement has to connect the Paschal Mystery with the Incarnation, which was the first theory of atonement and the ones that the early Fathers of the Church articulated, i.e. The Victor Christ theory which is expressed by the Fathers going back to the Recapitulation theory posited by St. Justin Martyr and Ireneaus.

The Ransom theory is not one that is acceptable by the Catholic Church nor is the Penal Substitution theory of Calvin which went far beyond Amselms theory of Satisfaction. Calvins theory is rooted in Punishment to appease God’s Anger and Justice, which goes against the theology of the Incarnation which Christ became Incarnate of the Virgin Mary because of his Love for Humanity.

So you are misrepresenting the Catholic Position and you don’t understand the article you linked. It clearly states than any acceptable theory of atonement can’t be seperated from Divine Incarnation and it was the idea of Incarnation as God becoming Man to restore Man back to his state before fall because of his Love for man, as St. Paul states, even while we were sinners, God still loved us [Letter to the Romans].

The theory of Atonement was not changed. It was developed by both the early Fathers of the CHurch and their theory of Atonement and St. Anselms theory [He is a Doctor of the Catholic Church and part of the Benedectine Tradition] are both acceptable and seen as complements, not in compiition.

The Antinomianist cited in the article you linked were part of the early Gnostic Movements and those groups and their theology were correctly labeled as heretics. So yes, the Faith alone mantra that Luther and Calvin posited did have some adherents in the early Church, but the groups positing that theory were Gnostics.


116 posted on 06/14/2012 8:13:35 PM PDT by CTrent1564
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To: CTrent1564
The Ransom theory is not one that is acceptable by the Catholic Church nor is the Penal Substitution theory of Calvin ...So you are misrepresenting the Catholic Position and you don’t understand the article you linked.

Sorry, I'm not misrepresenting anything. My point is that the early church father BELIEVED in the Penal Substitution theory. The article that I linked to SAYS they believed in it but the Church evolved its beliefs. What you stated only confirms what I stated-the Church doesn't believe in what was taught by the early church fathers in the way of atonement. Calvin didn't go "beyond" Anselm. He went BACK to the early fathers.

The Church simply doesn't believe what the early church fathers taught. They believe what the Council of Trent and forward taught.

191 posted on 06/15/2012 6:29:40 PM PDT by HarleyD
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